Ever wondered how to turn a heated argument into a productive discussion? This episode promises to decode the art of communication with our special guest, Jefferson Fisher, a lawyer, acclaimed for his practical advice on effective communication. From his journey transitioning from law to social media, we uncover the power of dialogue, insightful phrases, and strategies to navigate conversations with not just colleagues, but also children and spouses.
Dive into the world of conflict management, guided by the experiences of our guest, raised amidst a family of attorneys. Discover how a calm demeanor and a lower voice can de-escalate tense situations. The emphasis here is on how communication positively impacts relationships and conflict resolution. As we shift gears, we plunge into the realms of AI, the responsibility of voicing opinions in the social media space, and the art of parenting with effective communication principles.
Each chapter of this conversation is a treasure trove of communication wisdom, from understanding others' perspectives to setting clear goals and boundaries. The episode culminates with three key takeaways for having productive arguments and conversations, and Jefferson Fisher's enlightening inputs on these strategies. This episode isn't just a podcast, it's a masterclass in communication. So, lend us your ears, take notes, and transform your conversations. Remember to share this episode and leave a review to help us grow. Let's dive in!
Today's Guest: Jefferson Fisher
Jefferson's mission is to revolutionize the legal landscape by creating a transparent and technologically advanced law firm that prioritizes client advocacy. With an unwavering commitment to client-centered approaches, he emphasizes the value of teaching clients to argue less and communicate more effectively.
Today, we'll explore Jefferson's insights on teaching clients to engage in productive conversations, especially with loved ones. We'll also delve into the profound impact of finding one's purpose, drawing from Jefferson's own journey. Join us as we uncover the secrets to better communication, personal growth, and purpose-driven living.
Website: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/
Your Host: Kimberly Beam Holmes, Expert in Self-Improvement and Relationships
Kimberly Beam Holmes has applied her master's degree in psychology for over ten years, acting as the CEO of Marriage Helper & CEO and Creator of PIES University, being a wife and mother herself, and researching how attraction affects relationships. Her videos, podcasts, and following reach over 200,000 people a month who are making changes and becoming the best they can be.
Website: www.kimberlybeamholmes.com
Thanks for listening!
Connect on Instagram: @kimberlybeamholmes
Be sure to SUBSCRIBE to the podcast and leave a review!
WE HAVE A NEW WEBSITE!!
Visit www.itstartswithattraction.com to check it out!
Ever wondered how to turn a heated argument into a productive discussion? This episode promises to decode the art of communication with our special guest, Jefferson Fisher, a lawyer, acclaimed for his practical advice on effective communication. From his journey transitioning from law to social media, we uncover the power of dialogue, insightful phrases, and strategies to navigate conversations with not just colleagues, but also children and spouses.
Dive into the world of conflict management, guided by the experiences of our guest, raised amidst a family of attorneys. Discover how a calm demeanor and a lower voice can de-escalate tense situations. The emphasis here is on how communication positively impacts relationships and conflict resolution. As we shift gears, we plunge into the realms of AI, the responsibility of voicing opinions in the social media space, and the art of parenting with effective communication principles.
Each chapter of this conversation is a treasure trove of communication wisdom, from understanding others' perspectives to setting clear goals and boundaries. The episode culminates with three key takeaways for having productive arguments and conversations, and Jefferson Fisher's enlightening inputs on these strategies. This episode isn't just a podcast, it's a masterclass in communication. So, lend us your ears, take notes, and transform your conversations. Remember to share this episode and leave a review to help us grow. Let's dive in!
Today's Guest: Jefferson Fisher
Jefferson's mission is to revolutionize the legal landscape by creating a transparent and technologically advanced law firm that prioritizes client advocacy. With an unwavering commitment to client-centered approaches, he emphasizes the value of teaching clients to argue less and communicate more effectively.
Today, we'll explore Jefferson's insights on teaching clients to engage in productive conversations, especially with loved ones. We'll also delve into the profound impact of finding one's purpose, drawing from Jefferson's own journey. Join us as we uncover the secrets to better communication, personal growth, and purpose-driven living.
Website: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/
Your Host: Kimberly Beam Holmes, Expert in Self-Improvement and Relationships
Kimberly Beam Holmes has applied her master's degree in psychology for over ten years, acting as the CEO of Marriage Helper & CEO and Creator of PIES University, being a wife and mother herself, and researching how attraction affects relationships. Her videos, podcasts, and following reach over 200,000 people a month who are making changes and becoming the best they can be.
Website: www.kimberlybeamholmes.com
Thanks for listening!
Connect on Instagram: @kimberlybeamholmes
Be sure to SUBSCRIBE to the podcast and leave a review!
WE HAVE A NEW WEBSITE!!
Visit www.itstartswithattraction.com to check it out!
It's really cool when you see people on Instagram and then you actually get to talk to them in real life and realize that they are super genuine and show up to be exactly who they are online, and that is what happened in my conversation. Today. I'm interviewing Jefferson Fisher. He is actually a lawyer, but you may have seen him on Instagram or TikTok because he does a ton of videos about how to have healthy communication. He's on Instagram, as at Jefferson Fisher, and today we're talking about all different things.
Speaker 1:Communication we're talking about how do you start into an argument when you're angry in order to have the best possible outcome, and he talks about some different ways to frame that. We talk about some magic phrases that we can use in order to actually have the best possibility of getting what we want in a conversation. We talk about those things and so many other things. I even do a lightning round with him at the end, because there were so many other questions I wanted to ask him, but we didn't have the time to really dive in specifically to those. We talk about how to talk with children, how to talk with your spouse, how to negotiate. Again, it's a full packed episode, so let's not delay any longer. Let's dive in to today's episode with Jefferson Fisher. Jefferson, I'm super excited to have you on today. Thanks for joining.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Kimberly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I originally found you on Instagram. We were talking you were talking a little bit about Instagram before this and you were kind of a breath of fresh air because it's like it's a lawyer, but he's relatable and who makes sense when he talks.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that the bar, unfortunately, is set pretty low for lawyers. So wait, this guy smiles. What's that about? Right?
Speaker 1:And I don't have to pay him $450 an hour to listen to his reels.
Speaker 2:You mean I can listen to him for a full minute and he won't charge me?
Speaker 1:He won't charge me for 15 minutes, it is totally for free, I agree. No, that's awesome. So what like originally? How did you? What kind of law do you practice outside?
Speaker 2:of.
Speaker 1:Instagram. And then how did you get into social media and all of that?
Speaker 2:So I am a personal injury attorney, so I help people. When they get hurt like in the name, any kind of accident, I'm helping them. So I'm helping people that are really, a lot of the times, at their lowest point because an injury throws off their entire life. They may not be able to earn a living, take the kids to school. There's a whole dynamic that gets messed up in an accident. So that's what I do.
Speaker 2:I started my own firm about a year and a half ago after being at a defense firm for a long time, and we now have about 25 people at my firm, which is awesome. And but when I was by myself, I thought, well, I need to do social media for the law firm and I started to do little posts that I was seeing other attorneys about, like what to do in a car accident. I needed to get more people to follow to know about my law firm, and then I can just had this. Several events led to me having this watershed moment of who cares, like nobody know what. Do you want them to just follow your firm? What's your purpose? What are you doing here on the planet? You're trying to help people. Do I have to talk about my law firm to help people. No, so I just started to share what I like to talk about and I'm a nerd about something I'd like to do, and it's talking about communication.
Speaker 2:So I didn't have an office at the time I was trying to get one. So the only place I had was my car. That was it, and so I didn't. I was looking for like the best lighting, the best camera, the best all this. And so I just said forget the excuses, I'm just going to use my phone. And I still use my phone, I still use the car, even though I have two offices and everything's great. But yeah, the cars, cars were it's at.
Speaker 1:That's pretty awesome. Has the social media helped your law firm or has it opened up new doors for you in other ways or both?
Speaker 2:Both Kimberly. Yeah, my goodness it's. It's been amazing. Not only has it helped the law firm, I'll get calls daily from people all over the world United States, you name it ask me to help on their case, which I often do, and or they just call it to say it's something very nice, they just want to talk to me. So that's really neat.
Speaker 2:The other side is, I mean I've been able to have a book deal now with Ping O'Rana house to it's about communication. Who would ever thought that a guy talking to himself alone, recording himself in the car you know they don't know that I'm making these sometimes they're like in a gas station or like in front of a dollar general you know what I mean Like they don't know where you're at and it's turned into the book deal, a speaking. I get asked to speak a lot so I get hired by companies to talk to them about communication, conflict management or just social media, different things like that, and I've just been able. I went from not traveling really at all to I think I've done like 24 speaking engagements this year and I get to travel all over the place. It's been cool and bring the family when I can. It's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's the, that's the blessing. And the hard part about speaking, at least for me, is when my husband can go with me. It's great because we kind of get away. But the kids the kids are like, where have you been? So we try and take them when we can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's always hard when my my daughter, who's three, is like you don't want to take me with you.
Speaker 2:You know like like you know what she's, she knows what she's doing, and so I have to, like you know, baby, I told you like I'm going to just be gone. I got to go up there one day and I'm coming right back. You're gonna be able to come with me on this trip, that trip, and they, they understand now, kind of that. They ask what I do and I just that daddy helps people. That's really all they care, that's all they know. So that's that's it. Otherwise, they know nothing about the social media world, or I mean, I don't, I don't put you out there, I don't put my wife out there, I don't like to keep it very much private.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how did you get into? I mean, you said earlier you're a nerd about communication, like, why communication? Where did that passion come from?
Speaker 2:So I am a fifth generation attorney, like, don't numbers, don't math for for us Genetically. So I was the kid that got picked up from school. Then my dad would just put me in the corner so he could finish his deposition or go to a trial or, you know, go to a family meeting and all they talked about was, you know, trials, things that happen in funny courtroom stories, and I was just enamored with it and I grew up seeing how my dad spoke, my dad's very diplomatic, my mother is extremely kind and their number one prayer for me was wisdom. You know, growing up, and I think that, just I believe that that that prayer was answered. I believe that they're they, they, they chose that for a reason.
Speaker 2:So I've always had a gift for communication, for reading the room, reading people, feeling the emotions in the room, and that has led to many successes relationship wise, friendship wise, and how I navigate relationships. And so that's where that really came from. And a lot of people ask me, you know, did you write a book? Did you take a course that they teach you some law school? And the answer is no to all of this. Any of my videos that I give are just straight, generally from my head within about 10 minutes before I'm talking to you in the car, so it's just something that I like. I like to talk about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, lots of questions going through my mind of what I want to ask you next. You have a very calming demeanor, by the way. I mean we just we just met, you know, 10 minutes, 15 minutes ago, and I, I came on to the recording I was like super frazzled, was a couple minutes late and just the first few words out of your mouth I was like, oh, he's a calm presence, he has like a very soothing voice and felt my you know, felt my frustration and anxiety decrease a little bit just with that. Is that intentional? Like, have you intentionally learned how to present yourself and how to show up in a certain way in order to just deflate a situation?
Speaker 2:The answer is that comes naturally from what I have, what's been modeled for me. I will absolutely say that I have been blessed in a way to see models of diplomacy in my family and how they handle and address conflict. I grew up I'd get so mad. I mean, I'm a teenager, I'm getting mad at my mom. She's trying to control me, she's trying to do this, and I'd come to dad and dad go, so. But dad, you don't understand, he'd go. So you know I mean, and it was, oh man what? Yeah, he's right, and so his whole thing was, you know, hey, don't make that your Alamo, in other words, is that the hill you're gonna die on really? And he was just so good at like deconstructing a lot of the ways.
Speaker 2:I would feel that and it became very natural to me in my demeanor to slow down, and as an attorney especially, I very much honed that behavior because my sole job is to send my clients into just intense conflict. So I have to train them and teach them and calm them down in very significant ways, and a part of that is what I've learned now, now that I've like working backwards and I've been thinking about it why is that that my lower voice or using a calming voice, a slower register, which comes very natural to me, actually makes other peoples their sympathetic nervous system, like it matches their energy and the frequency to calm them down, so they oftentimes it would be different if I came on and I just started yelling or I was really intense. You're gonna also feel that intensity. So we tend to mirror each other and so when I come in I'm a lot more calming and talking about our day and how's your morning gone. Then your body's like oh, I like okay, I can match this frequency, and then it kind of just starts to ease.
Speaker 1:To ease in, to ease down, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about the person who is angry, wants justice, believes they're right, wants their way. You probably deal with some of these people.
Speaker 2:Every day.
Speaker 1:Every day. What is your? What have you seen work? How do you get people to shift their mindset and shift their behaviors so that the other person can actually hear what they're trying to say?
Speaker 2:So let's put it in a context. Let's say let's put it. I assume for your readers it's marriage, it's relationship. Let's put it contextually they come into the kitchen. What's happening?
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. They come into the kitchen and let's say they're. Let's say it's a wife. She's been working hard all day getting the house clean, making dinner and for the fifth night in a row, her husband is not home on time for dinner, like he said he was going to be. And it's not just the fact that he's not home, it's he doesn't respect me, he doesn't love me. This isn't right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And so he comes in and he doesn't see what the big deal is, and she's upset and feels disrespected and unloved. And what she says to him is why are you never home? Why don't you wanna be with me? You need to change Like. We have to start spending more time together, so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:That's hard and let's make it even harder. Let's say kids are around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, they're sitting at the dinner table.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's make it more, let's make it even harder. Kids are sitting at the dinner table, they're already finishing dinner and husband comes in late. So mom has a choice at that moment Do I dress this now or do I dress this later? Now that I think the first part of it is personal preference, I would recommend that it is not addressed in front of the kids. That's just my personal belief.
Speaker 2:I grew up in a household that if you wanted to have a significant conversation, even if it was an argument, it needs to be done away from child's ears because they don't understand the context. And I don't believe that kind of behavior, should it turn ugly, should be modeled in front of kids. If you can't have it in a healthy way but it sounds like under our scenario it's not gonna be, add, in a very healthy way. So dinner goes exactly as it should. You can either choose to address hi dad's here, let's finish dinner, let's have bed, let them have a good night of sleep, let them have a good night's rest. Then you turn to address the conversation in the room.
Speaker 2:What you don't wanna do is start off with a why by pushing the why question. Yes, that's the question you want to know. But when you put it in terms of a why, very much feels like a challenge. So it pushes a threat to our body of challenging your autonomy, it challenges your competence. If I were to just say to you, kimberly, let's say you did something. I said why'd you do that? Our immediate response is because I wanted to. That's right. You know how are you to question?
Speaker 1:me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because that's what I wanted to do. What's it? Do you? So it works the same way. You have times where if you start with why, it is immediately going to put them defensive because it is a challenge, it is a trigger to people. So the first question my style is very much a diplomatic.
Speaker 2:Let's come to the root of the matter, because if you just start complaining that they're late, they know that they're late. So you complaining that they're late does nothing in terms of resolving the real issue. Right, it's just you venting. If you need to vent, tell them that you're gonna vent. If you need to put a frame around it, I just need to vent to you for a second. I want to talk about this later, I want to talk about it afterwards, but I need you to be a place to just vent. They probably aren't gonna want to hear that Bigger issue is gonna need to be.
Speaker 2:Where is this coming from? In terms of the repeated behavior? A very much more powerful way, I think way to address this is do I need to give up on the idea of you coming home on time, because if you ask it that way, they will answer in the negative? I was like no, no, you don't need to. I can do this. I can do this. At the same time, you need to be very mindful of what's happening in their day, as to why they're late, and that means you're asking questions more along the lines of what happened today, how was your day? Like finding out, because you really don't know.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Most of the time, if you just like typical scenario right Kimberley's, they come home late, kids are down Great, so you're just gonna be. I guess you're just never gonna be home. Is this what it is? Like you said, you're gonna be home the other week. You have no clue what happened in his day. Who knows, it could be something where it's, maybe something at work, maybe it was traffic, maybe it was, who knows?
Speaker 2:So you always have to have a pause to understand what's really happening in the world. If it is a complete sign of disrespect that they know that they're being late and they just don't wanna be around, that's much more of a boundary that you need to put up. Be much more assertive and aggressive with it. That means that sounds more along the lines of I'm interested in a relationship that shows up. If you're not interested in that and being with us at dinner, I need to know that. Now there are times where I think you need to ask them in ways that want them to talk to you rather than want them to close up to you. So often we feel like the answer is to attack when they just make some claim up more rather than trying to be understanding of. What is it about us that makes you not wanna be here and that starts to crack that a whole lot more?
Speaker 1:And it also I mean the other part of that is being able and willing to hear what they might honestly say yeah, and sometimes those answers back might be well then, oh, there is something about us that makes me not wanna be here and here it is right. And then that can lead to a cycle of poor interaction, poor communication.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you'll get in a circle. Yeah, how many times you get in a. It's cyclical where you're getting in an argument, you come to the same place, but it just gets worse.
Speaker 1:It just gets worse.
Speaker 1:And, Jefferson, I can imagine that, with you having a history, a family history, a professional history, just the experience in your life, the what's, Lord, I'm looking for, Like the importance that you have put on communication, just in general for you, you probably tend to show up communicating well in your conversations and in arguments, but there are probably people that you get in arguments with or disagree with and they don't give the same kindness back right Like they don't think of not using, not saying it in a challenging way and saying why?
Speaker 1:Right, so how do you handle? So we can still continue to use the example of the wife who's mad at the husband. So let's say the wife is doing all these things, she's approaching it in the right way, not asking why but looking to see what the core issue is, but he is using all the wrong communication styles and blaming her and X, Y and Z, and she's having to, like keep her calm in the middle of a very difficult conversation. How would you recommend to continue on in that conversation when the other person is difficult to talk to?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, well, that's just about any argument. They're gonna be difficult to talk to, especially when you're trying to calm things down in a way. So what has been very beneficial for me is that I frame my arguments at the outset. So let's say I'm the wife in this situation and I know deep down he's a good dad or that he really loves us. That's not the issue. There's not a fear of like are you going around, do you not love me? That's not the issue. It's just he's not coming home. When he says he's gonna come home To me, you can frame a conversation by one acknowledging what you know and a quality you want them to have.
Speaker 2:So if you and I can really let's say you and I are in an argument and I can start at the outset of saying look, I know that being on time is important to you, I know that attention to detail is important to you. I know that respect is important to you. Whatever quality I want you to have at that time, I want you to show up in. I say it. I speak that over the conversation. So if I am the wife, I say look, I know that you love us and you love our children, and so you give me at the outset boom, you've set the tenor of they are now not going to be feeling threatened of. I have to show you how much I love you. But I do this, but I do that by. I mowed the yard but I did this. I paid the bills, I'm working like I know. I know that you work hard for us and our family. Boom, I've already calmed it down. That's that's. You've hit a fear that they could have.
Speaker 2:Then you frame it, you put an end to the conversation and not an end, but you put a backstop to it. I want to have a conversation with you, a real conversation with you, about you coming home late, and at the end of it, I want to know why you're not coming home late in ways that we can think together of making sure you're at home on time. I want to be a help to that. Boom, you've now put a backstop on it, say, hey, we're going to have this conversation. Maybe it gets ugly, maybe it gets tense, but I've already claimed at the end of it this is how I want this to go.
Speaker 2:Can you agree to that? And when you get their buy-in into the conversation on the end, that's always better. So a lot of times you don't have to agree how to get there. You just have to be aligned on the goal. So if you can get them to buy in on, are you willing to engage in a conversation with me about ways we can get you here on time? They're down for that. Okay, then let's. Then let's talk about it. What's happening? You're going to find way more success than that in this just throwing darts game.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because that's typically. We just like to send zingers, things that can hurt. I'm here with the kids, you're not. I have this, you're not, and all you're doing is making. You're hurting them, you're making them defensive and you're not at all addressing the true issue.
Speaker 1:A key takeaway I took from what you just said is entering into the conversation with a goal, and how often do people not?
Speaker 2:Every time I mean, how many times have we been on an argument? And you think to yourself how did this start? Where was I going with this? You go around.
Speaker 1:Where am I wanting to end?
Speaker 2:Or even like what's the point? Two, you go. One, you say how did we even, how did we start? And then how do we get out of this argument? Like we've just we've lost our way. How did this even begin? You started talking about ironing clothes and next thing you know you're talking about. You know something that happened in 2007 on a bad date that you had, like you just never know. Yeah, goals, goals. Knowing what you want the end goal to be before you even start often cuts down a lot on the fluff.
Speaker 1:So you and your wife, do you just have super effective communication, clear cut arguments that have a goal in mind, Like or does she ever get frustrated that she's up against someone who's like a pro at communication, or do you ever get frustrated, yeah? Because maybe she's better at it than you. Who knows?
Speaker 2:Well, she's an attorney too.
Speaker 1:Oh, my yeah.
Speaker 2:We've known each other since we were teenagers, so knew each other long before we were attorneys. Yeah, and all it means in terms of an attorney is that she just knows if I ever, if well, either one of us ever go into cross examination mode.
Speaker 1:Explain what that means for the listeners.
Speaker 2:That means I'm asking questions to prove a point, like I'm using my questions to prove my point for me. And so if I wanted, let's think of a scenario if I wanted to prove that you've left the garage door open, I don't know, I'm just making something and she's saying no, I didn't. My cross examination mode is you had carpool that day? Yeah, you left after I did. Yeah, I didn't get home before you did I. No, you're the one who left the garage door. But like you're like I'm poking, I'm using my cross exam and my questioning to prove my point.
Speaker 1:But isn't that effective in the courtroom?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not beneficial for interpersonal relationship, it's I just mean yeah, I just mean that, to say that we're both very aware of when we go into that mode and as soon as we do, we're very quick to say do not cross examine me. Oh, yep, sorry, like it's just a habit. You can't really help it, but we're very aware of when that's happening. But yeah, do I get frustrated? Does she get frustrated? Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's switch topics a little bit and talk about negotiation. So what are some ways that people can have the most success in getting what they want in? And let's keep it within a marriage or within a romantic relationship. So you're wanting to agree on a budget and you have one person who is more of the like I want to save all our money so we can go on exotic vacations every year. And we have the other person who's like I don't want to have a budget because I feel frustrated by it, or I feel enclosed by, like a prisoner to the money. I don't want to be told how much to spend, and so you don't have agreement. How do you, how would you encourage either of those people to approach that conversation with a negotiation mindset?
Speaker 2:That's hard you have. Always there's a spender and a saver right In the relationship. In my relationship, I'm the spender, my life's the saver. I'm a show of pinch of penny into a dime, dime or as I'm like if I want it, I feel like that's what, if I can afford it, that's what I want. The best way I have found to have those kind of discussions one is you frame it of. Is this something you want to talk about? Because if not, then we need to add in somebody else. I think marriage counseling is healthy. I don't have any problem with adding a third party into the mix because oftentimes, especially with money, it becomes a quicksand for significant relationship issues. I think money leads oftentimes to divorce in many ways. So I have no problem with adding somebody into the mix. So let's say that's. We'll set that aside.
Speaker 2:If you want to be most persuasive in a negotiation, I really like to use the phrase what's the chance you can really use that in any context what's the chance that you and I can talk about Our finances without us yelling? What's the chance that you and I can sit down tonight after the kids go to bed and line out a budget for the month? So that often is just a quick warm up to say we can engage your temperature right now. So what's the chance? But you can really use that for anything you want to get. You want to see if you can get upgraded the hotel. You know what's. What's the chance. What's the chance there's any other, better rooms available, anything like that? What's the chance? Always works at a restaurant. What's the chance they have any of this left In terms of trying to get them more to buy in seriously with? They don't want to sit down. They don't want to do this. You got to show them the benefit of what they can get if they do. I mean, goals are very enticing even for them. If we sit down and save and you don't go to Starbucks, you know, but once a week, this is what we can. This is what we can do. So I think goals are all even important in this context.
Speaker 2:There's not really a set of words that are going to make them sit down and be serious. I think you need to have conversations about their seriousness first and then make sure that's good and then go to the next level of or. Now let's start talking about the, the budget and what you're willing to work on. I find that negotiations only go well if you you get you understand them first. So that means you're asking questions of what's your own personal feelings on how you when we get money and you see that we have money and what goes through your brain what are you thinking about? Understand how they think so that they open up more and then you have more understanding of where to go from there. Because when you get into the habit of like I don't understand you, I can't get how you think, how could you not think this? You're such an idiot that you're going to block them off, they're going to get defensive and they're not going to want to do anything with your budget.
Speaker 1:Yeah or other things, right, I mean that's a good thing that just pushes the other person away.
Speaker 2:in general, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:Do people ever ask you like what's the five secret phrases that can just transform my communication and get me or help?
Speaker 2:me get whatever I want, Nobody's asked me like that before but I can give you a few that I like to use. Number one is maybe so. So anytime you get something to keep yourself from getting defensive, make somebody else die down, when you hear something that's going to make you want to, oh yeah, what about you? Whenever you feel that feeling, you say, well, maybe so, Boom, Instantly just diffuses it. It's done.
Speaker 2:What else can they say? They feel like okay, satisfied of all right. Well, okay, At least considered it. But yeah, but you, in the same way, I'm not taking it on. Well, maybe, so it's having that, what I just consider a flexible mindset, that growth mindset. If you're too loose, there's chaos, right. If you're too rigid, you're not letting anything in or out. But if you can have some flexibility of well, maybe you're right, so I like maybe, so, Maybe you're right. That's also one that I use very frequently is maybe you're right. I'm giving the possibility that I could certainly be wrong. People love that. They cannot get enough of the idea that you're considering In any context. They're like oh, my God, it's real. So whenever you tell somebody, oh, maybe you're right, they hit some because they heard the word right, which satisfies them.
Speaker 1:Right next to the word you.
Speaker 2:Correct, yeah. And they don't really hear the maybe part. They just hear that you're right, yeah. At the same time, you're recognizing that you could certainly be wrong. Another phrase I like to use is I could be better. I can do that better. I could have done that better. I'll be better. Any phrases like that help significantly Oftentimes, especially towards the end of an argument. It's a great way of creating a bridge to connect to the other person. So I've had somebody I have multiple people actually tell me they love that phrase. One was a lady who she messaged me and said at the end of this argument with my husband, I knew we'd been married like 12 years. At the end of the argument I said I can be better, and he responded I can be better too. She said I've never heard that from this man in all of our years of marriage.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:When you just acknowledge yourself of, hey, I can be better, because it's always true, right, no matter what, you can always be just that 1% better. That's enough of an acknowledgement of you know, this wasn't my best, next time I can be better. I'll work on that. And oftentimes they say the same thing.
Speaker 1:I love those. What do you personally do when you get frustrated? In an argument? I mean, you've shared some things, but have you just done it so much that these are your go-to phrases? When you feel like someone's attacking you or saying things that are just blatantly wrong or blatantly lie, I mean, when that sense of justice kind of comes up in you, how do you keep yourself calm?
Speaker 2:How do I keep myself calm? Breathing works every time. I am a big proponent of the breath because I can tell them my shoulders.
Speaker 2:My shoulders are getting tense, what happens so? The traps that my muscles get real tight and I realize what am I doing. So if I breathe big breath in and out, that helps me a lot to calm down. But I also tend to this is just from repetition I like to detach myself from bad arguments so I like to kind of watch them. They're a party kind of thing of understanding what's happening in that moment. So when somebody is saying bad stuff to me, I picture myself having like a garbage trash can right here. So whenever I get it I just put it away. I never allow it to, I don't allow myself to carry it, I don't allow myself to take it personally.
Speaker 2:I hear it. I don't even. I'm not even putting in my basket, I'm just putting in the trash. And that image to me helps, keeps me a lot more calm, so that I'm not chasing rabbit trails to no man's land If I want to stay right on path. That's one of the most frustrating things, I think, for people and they get really mad at it.
Speaker 2:In an argument is the person who's being logical, because at that moment you want to be emotional. You want them to be emotional. You have to find a way that this is threatening to me. I have to fight or flight. I need to fight you. I want to say something hurtful, I want to throw something. This is my fight mode saying I need to beat you.
Speaker 2:But if you don't ever present yourself as an opponent in a way to where they're never able to rise to, really to grab onto something like if I yelled back at you, I've now just gave them a pedestal to jump even further. If I say something ugly, I've now just justified their words. Now they get to grab for more every time. But if I just never offer that, I diffuse it every time, and so often I'll have other attorneys go. Man, I wish you weren't on this case, or else I'd be able to get a lot more passionate and angry, and just not able to, because I never provide them that robe. So breath works a lot. Slowing my voice and my words down help a lot. Slowing your words is always very useful.
Speaker 1:And calming.
Speaker 2:And calming. Yeah, so it calms them down If I have somebody on the phone or in front of me and they're all worked up just for me to say look at them and say I hear you, it doesn't matter who it is, they go okay. I just want to know that I'm acknowledging them oftentimes and that calms me down pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:Are there ever times, though, when you want to excite them, so, instead of calm them down, you need them to actually be a bit more passionate. And then what do you do in those instances? Just the opposite, like talk faster, you got it.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So if I'm wanting to amp somebody up, if I really want to get things going, I'm going to talk a whole lot faster. My volume is going to start to increase and I'm going to say hey look, I need you to be engaged here with me. I say this, I need you to be that, and then now I'm starting to get them elevated because they're starting to match my frequency. That's what I do.
Speaker 1:That's right. I was like I'm all in, Jefferson, Tell me where are we going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. It's like, hey, we're going to do this, come on.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Then they are. Now they feel like all right, we're on a team, let's go.
Speaker 1:I'm ready to just run through a brick wall For sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What about for the people who they've had an argument? It was terrible. They've had all the wrong things, but they're wanting now to reset, so they're wanting to take a break and then they're wanting to reengage in that same conversation. How do you reengage properly?
Speaker 2:Let me clarify. Have they disengaged yet? Like they're in separate rooms, they're not talking to each other and they want to come back together. That's a great question.
Speaker 1:Can we talk about it with both? So let's say they've taken a timeout, a specific timeout, but they're going to be coming back together, and then let's talk about you're in the middle of it and you realize this isn't going the way I wanted to.
Speaker 2:How do you?
Speaker 1:reset.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I would, if they are separated, not talking to each other. This is a pretty. I'm going to make this point real quick though, too. When they come together, a very open way of starting to just make a runway for the other person to come together with you is to say that was not my best self, Just admitting that was not my best moment.
Speaker 1:Like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to have that, you were taking ownership of the fact that who I was was not who I want to be right now. Oftentimes in arguments people will say what kind of demeanor do I need to have? You already have it, you just don't use it. So if you and I, kimberly, if you and I are in an argument and we're just hashing out, I mean we're just saying things and eventually I say something that's gone one step too far, I hurt too much. I made a comment that I knew it hurt because I wanted it to hurt. And let's say, you start to cry, I start to cry, we go in separate rooms. Then we come back together 30 minutes later, an hour later. How are we talking? Then we're a lot softer. Hey, hey, I'm sorry. I said that. It's not what I meant. I mean you hear how the conversation. Now you sound softer, now you slow things down, now you're actually listening to what they have to say, coming at it.
Speaker 2:From my point of view, this is what happened. Oh, that's not what I meant. From my point of view, you have all the tools, you're just not using them in that way. But let's say they haven't separated yet. If they're just hashing at it. Somebody needs to take a timeout and say this we're running in circles. This is more harm than good right now. Can we take a and put a time frame on it? Can we come back to this tomorrow or tonight or in 30 minutes? I think I just need to take a walk for a second. Somebody needs to take the responsibility of saying this is not going anywhere. This is not helpful to us. This is more. This is doing more harm than good, and I think we need to reset. Nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2:All that, yeah, as long as you make it clear that this is not me giving up. This is not me leaving the conversation. I want to continue it, but I want to continue it in a healthy way. Can you, what's the chance you agree with that? And they'll say, yeah, that's a chance. Yeah. Maybe it's true, yeah yeah, yeah, maybe, so, maybe so.
Speaker 1:Maybe so, maybe. So. What I'm getting from a lot of the things you've said and just kind of summarizing, is it takes a lot of personal self-awareness and forward thinking to have good communication. So self-awareness and maturity to be able to say, to be able to say maybe you're right or maybe so, and not to get so defensive in the moment, but as well, I mean. I go back to what you said of have a goal Like what's the goal for the, what's the goal for the argument, what's the goal for the conversation, and being able to frame that on the front end Huge game changer. That's something I'm probably going to start using today. I'm sure I'm going to encounter some conversation today in my life where I'll say here's the goal, here's kind of the boundaries of it, here's what I want to see us get to. And it may not be pretty every step along the way, but I believe that we're on the same team and can get there if we work together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I absolutely agree. One thing that even that's very powerful to say at the outset like that, when you want to reframe it say look, I need permission from you to say things even if they don't make sense to say things, even if it's venting or even if it's messy.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. I need you to understand. I'm going to say things that may not make sense to you, but I need to just say them and I don't need you to respond yet, I just need to be able to say them. Ken's good, you know, can you be in that with me?
Speaker 2:But when we say, like the bigger themes of what we're talking about here today is, yes, it's definitely good to have that sense of detachment, maturity, being able to have a goal, I would think a very big key is to understand that the person you see, even at home, even the person you live with, is often not the person you're talking to, because you see them at home, busy doing this and that, but that's just what you see.
Speaker 2:But who you're talking to is the person that this morning got really frustrated that their hair was done right and they got self conscious and they're having a bad day, or they had a text from their mother who set them off and got them upset, or they had something happen at work that got them overly stressed, or maybe they got a bill in the mail that they don't know about yet and they just all of a sudden they got sent into finances. The person you see is really the person you're talking to. So when you get into the argument side of things, the more curious you are about what's happening to them. Rather than being so defensive of what's being said to you, it's like you reverse engineer the conversation. When you just have the capability of they say something ugly, you just like no, that's not what I'm looking at. I want to ask about you, what's happening here? Because once you find that, that's where you found the issue.
Speaker 1:I love that, I really love that. That's fantastic and I'm sure I'll be able to use that today too in some of the conversations I'm going to have later. Weird question. I have a couple more questions as we end. I love those questions. We'll do more. Maybe these will be like fireball questions, lightning questions. Are you concerned about what AI might do to human communication?
Speaker 2:No, no, there's. We've had plenty of indirect communication, like with text text alone, emails. There is nothing that can communicate your point of view more than your own words. So many times I'm texting with anybody and there's that concern of I'm not understanding this correctly or I'm taking this email the wrong way If I call you instantly resolved, instantly resolved. There's something as a human that we'd like to hear human voices.
Speaker 1:Very true.
Speaker 2:We'd like to feel. You know the. We are meant to hear the warmth, that, like we're the, we are meant to feel the warmth of somebody's smile, not see it in an emoji Like those are just pixels on a screen and you can tell and you hear my voice when I'm not smiling versus when I am smiling, and we just know it, because that is just part of our biology, so I'm not concerned about it. Would I say it's more efficient when I say it's really cool? Do I think it's going to have some great benefit? Yeah, sure, why not? I mean, everybody was always afraid of whatever the next technology was going to be, but I don't think anything's going to change the impact or importance of people's voice.
Speaker 1:How do you keep, or do you keep yourself from being just totally immersed in social media? I mean, you have a pretty large following. You're doing stuff all the time on it. How do you not let it run your life?
Speaker 2:You just don't. I mean I don't you stop talking about it. I mean, yeah, I mean you just don't you just make a decision. That Again, like for me, it's what am I here for? Am I here to exist for an app on my phone? You know I can be here. I'm here at my house right now, like you and I were discussing before the episode, when I'm here with my family. Am I two kids? You think they care at all about 6 million people on my phone? No, they don't. I'm here, Like I'm physically here.
Speaker 2:So, as long as you have that care for your priority is the people in front of you, not the people through the screen. So I try to have that mentality and also just have a sense of relief of too many times people are so focused on followers and engagement. You have to have followers, you have to have engagement. I'm a firm believer that the people that are meant to follow you will follow you. If they wanna unfollow, they will. People who wanna stay will stay.
Speaker 2:But if you get into this sense of as soon as you feel like you deserve followers, that's the time that you don't Is my point of view on it. So I try to just I fit my social media into my life. I don't fit my life around my social media. So I think having that aspect of it, that's the reason why I don't include my kids, my wife I'm not gonna. I don't ever wanna be at a point where it's like all right, everybody get together, we're gonna make this post oh no, you didn't smile good enough, that's not cute. Like, why even make that dynamic? That's not what I, that's not what it is, it's not real.
Speaker 1:What if it all went away tomorrow? What would you do?
Speaker 2:I said that was a fun game. I just say that was a cool ride. If it all went away tomorrow, it'd still be exactly exactly what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Would you be sad Of?
Speaker 2:course, yeah, there'd be a chance of. Of course I'd be sad.
Speaker 2:Maybe, so, yeah, maybe so, because I, at this point, I feel a very strong sense of responsibility to people that follow me, rely on my advice or rely on my opinion. I do think if you give an opinion in any social space, you have an obligation to make sure that it is good and sound and from a right place and from a good heart, one that's going to put more light into the world, and I take that very seriously. So if it all went away, it would be more of a concern of the people who I can't help. Yeah, there's no way I could be able to reach them in that way. But in terms of, like the vanity of what would you do if you lost all your followers? I'd still make the same video at the same time. I still make the same video now as I did when I was like pumped about a thousand views.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Two more, two more quick questions. You're good when it comes to kids and communicating with them, specifically in terms of discipline. How would you communicate, like? What kind of what stays the same of what you've talked about so far and what might shift for someone who doesn't have a fully developed prefrontal cortex? Or other areas of their brain.
Speaker 2:Right. One thing that for sure stays the same is the tone and cadence of your voice. So if I were to say to my son angrily what are you thinking, what are you doing? Like, what's wrong with you? Yeah, what's wrong, fine, yeah. Oh, my God, that's the worst thing I could ever say. Versus, if I slow down my tone, you know my rhythm. If I slow down my words, if I lower my voice, say hey, man, you want to talk to me about what was going through your head?
Speaker 2:What do you, where would that come from? And become equally as curious about what goes through his head, because what goes through his head is not what's going through mine. At the time, it made sense for him to, you know, cut up a dollar bill. He just want to see you know what I mean, like he just want to see what would happen. That was it, and you know what we found out. So it's you know what I mean. So it's like it's how that's cool, man, and what did you and what did you learn it? Just, they do cut, just like paper. That's right, they really do.
Speaker 1:And I take this as a real situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he's well. He went through like just a, a scissor mode. So then he, like at school, he cut his shirt and the question asked like what's going on, what's up with that man? He's like I just wanted to see if it would cut.
Speaker 1:Just I was curious.
Speaker 2:Well, I said what we learned. He's like. It does Like, yeah, you're right man, it really does, don't they? So, yeah, the way you speak matters a great deal, often more than what you say. We hear how you say it, the when you yell and say harsh things, it's very hard to register for anybody.
Speaker 2:It's very hard to register If your kid is yelling and screaming. Rarely does yelling and screaming at them make it any better. It is again, they need to match and they will mirror your frequency. So if my daughter is going crazy on something, if I just repeat to her I can't hear you when you're yelling, maybe I can't. I cannot hear you when you're yelling at me. Boom, within two times he's always will come down and she'll, she'll. You know she was tell-telling on something. So yeah, those, those are the most important. I think to to how you say to them and keep a a mind of curiosity of what's, what's really going through their, their head.
Speaker 1:You mentioned at the beginning that your parents prayed over you, that you would have wisdom.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What are you praying over your children?
Speaker 2:Now the same prayer. So it's, it's the same same, exact one. So my dad would pray. They would pray dear God, give Jefferson wisdom and always be his friend. That was my, that was my prayer every night. I pray the same. I pray the same thing. I make it a little bit different. So with my daughter, I'd pray that she have confidence in wisdom, like I want her to be. She's full of fire and I never want that to ever go, ever Now. With my son, it is charisma, wisdom, confidence is all those words that I I want to instill in him.
Speaker 2:That, just to be kind, like one time he came home this was, this was a few weeks ago and I came home and he's like dad, aren't you so proud of so? And so is a is a girl at a school and I I don't know who this kid is I was like what happened? He's like she did so good on her handwriting that she got a prize. I'm so proud of her dad. And I was like I was just. I was totally, oh my gosh. I started tearing up because at that point I was like what else? Because what else can I ask for? Absolutely, my child would feel proud of another kid who was struggling with you know how to write, how to write her her words, and that he was that excited for her, so that that kind of stuff is just an affirmation of you. Just you continue to pray for kindness and they hear those words. I mean, I think that's also. They hear it. When they hear it, I know that's what you want for them, that's what they're going to chase after too.
Speaker 1:That was awesome, Jefferson. It's been fantastic speaking with you. I've loved our conversation. Love getting to connect with you. Where's the best place for people to follow you?
Speaker 2:Instagram. Yeah, Instagram. If they have Facebook or TikTok, I like Instagram. It's just Jefferson Fisher, You'll find me.
Speaker 1:And that is F-I-S-H-E-R. The normal spelling of Fisher. Go, follow Jefferson. He has some great content out there and, of course, you got to hear him and all of his great wisdom that his parents prayed for and that he was able to share with us today. Thank you again, jefferson. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:Here are my key takeaways from today's episode. When it comes to communicating well, it really does take the same amount of self-awareness and forward thinking as it should in anything that we take seriously. Our words can bring life or they can bring death. They can build someone up or they can tear someone down, and in our communication is the best way that we can show other people that we care about them or make them feel like we absolutely don't. When we talk about being the best person that we can be, being the best version of ourselves, we know that emotional attraction is a big part of that, and communication is really important when it comes to evoking emotions within other people that they enjoy feeling, and Jefferson had some great key takeaways of that. The first one is I love how he talks about approaching the conversation with curiosity, especially when you're angry or frustrated or feel like you're trying to get vindication or anything like that. I love that thought process of I hear everything you're saying and how you're attacking me or complaining or whatever it is. But let's put that aside. I wanna understand what's really happening inside of you right now. The way that he said it is the person that you're talking to isn't the person who you know, like the things that have happened in their life, or I believe he said it the opposite. The person you know isn't the person that you're talking to. Things have happened in their day, in their life, in their mind, that we don't understand at every single given moment. So be curious about seeing what's really under the hood of the situation. The second thing is having a goal for the argument or a goal for the conversation and framing it on the front end. Hey, I'm upset about this, but my goal that I would love to explore with you today is, or right now, is, how can we get aligned on this X, get aligned on our budget, get aligned on our schedule, get aligned on this decision that we need to make, whatever it is. What's the chance that we could do that now? Framing the conversation of what you're going into it feeling like and what you hope to get out of it. And then my third key takeaway from today was to deflate and just take the power out of certain arguments by saying maybe, so, maybe you're right, I could be better. All of those are true in every situation, and it really does take the anger and frustration out of a situation, to deflate it so that you can work better together, to get on the same page and actually get things done.
Speaker 1:And go follow Jefferson at Jefferson Fisher. It was great to talk to him today. If you have a friend, family member, loved one that you would love to share this episode with, please do. It helps the conversation. I'm going to go ahead and talk to him about the conversation that I'm going to talk about. It helps the show to grow by reaching more people and, as always, leaving those reviews wherever you listen to podcasts is one of the best gifts that you could give to help the show spread even more. Until next week, stay strong.