How To Coparent With Someone That Is Making You Crazy

Although we wish every marriage could be saved, we know that it's not the reality for some people. Divorce is hard and no one should go through it alone.

Today's episode is with Julie Beckerman,  a High Conflict Relationship Coach. She chats about how hard divorce can be difficult, especially with children involved. Julie provides insight on how we can communicate better with our spouse when conflict is high and emotions are strong when going through a divorce. 

Please share this episode with anyone struggling with communication with their ex-spouse or, anyone that has kids going through a difficult divorce.

Today's Speaker: Julie Beckerman, High Conflict Relationship Coach

Divorce isn’t easy, and mine was certainly no exception. In 2014, after 10 years of marriage, with the decision to get divorced, I began the most difficult, scary, confusing, angering, and liberating journeys of my life:

I navigated the waters of co-parenting, being a stay-at-home-mom, changing friendships, lawyers and courtrooms, living in the same house with my ex, relationships with ex-in-laws, dating, my ex getting remarried, going back to work, moving to a new home, new school for my daughter, new job, starting a new career, a new life…

With the help of a solid support system, I began to see this as not just a challenge to get through, which it certainly was, but also an opportunity that had only just begun.

• I’m a Certified Professional Coach from the Institute of Professional Excellence in Coaching, as well as a certified career counselor from New York University.
• I have experience and training in Dialectic Behavior Therapy, Effective Communication, and Mindfulness techniques with a background working in business and Human Resources.
• I have experience navigating the transitions of divorce and dealing with the loss of a loved one, addiction, and health & fitness.

Julie's Website: https://aspiretogrowth.com/ 

Website: www.PIESUniversity.com

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You’ll Learn

• how to have a great co-parenting relationship 
• how to evoke emotions within your kids and your ex 
• to lean into curiosity with your kids 
• that you need to speak positively about your ex-spouse when speaking to your kids

Episode 93 - How To Coparent With Someone That Is Making You Crazy, with Julie Beckerman

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Transcript

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 0:31

co parenting can be so difficult, I don't know from personal experience, but I do have a very good friend who is experiencing some difficulties with her co parenting. And so I am honored and privileged to be her listening ear that she vents to. And through that I understand it can be really difficult, really, really, really, really difficult. So in this conversation, I am speaking with Julie Beckerman who really focuses on what a person can do, specifically women, although I know that the men listening will get great value from this as well. When you are going through a difficult divorce or a difficult co parenting relationship and her perspective is all on the kids. What can you do to really lean in and listen to your kids while also doing the best you can to have an amicable relationship with the other parent. This episode is also taken from an Instagram Live that I did with Julie Beckerman. So if the audio sounds a bit different, and I'm reading comments and things, that's why it was a powerful IG live. Also, you can go follow me at Kimberly beam homes on Instagram so that you can see when more fun Instagram lives like this happen. Let's dive into today's episode.

Unknown: 1:47

There's a process to falling in love. And it starts with attraction. Join Kimberly being home to our special guests as they discuss how to become the most attractive you can be physically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually, or as we refer to it, working on your pies will teach you how to have better relationships and become more attractive to others. And maybe more importantly, to yourself. It starts with attraction. And it starts now. Hey, Julie.

Julie Beckerman: 2:18

Hello. It worked. It worked. How are you?

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 2:22

Lovely first century tech. I am good. How are you doing today?

Julie Beckerman: 2:26

I'm good. Thank you.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 2:27

Your hair is amazing.

Julie Beckerman: 2:30

It worked out well.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 2:31

Today. It works. Today's a good day for you. But I love it. Well, Julie, tell our audience who so who you are, what it is you do. And then I have a ton of questions that our audience members would love to know the answers to

Julie Beckerman: 2:46

great. Yeah, so my name is Julie. I am a co parenting coach. Which is basically like how to communicate with someone who is making you crazy that you have to write you have a kid you have to deal with this person. And we hear a lot ignore. Just don't deal with it. But we have to do. Mm hmm. I'm divorced. I've been divorced since 2016. Separated since 2014. I have a daughter who's 14. And we've been dealing with this and she's little you know, all and so I'm, I'm really happy to thank you for having me. And I'm really glad to be here and shares stuff that I know can help a lot of people.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 3:30

That's fantastic. Thank you for being on I love. I love the tagline. You said how to communicate with someone who's making you crazy. Is that how you said

Julie Beckerman: 3:38

it? That's yeah, perfect.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 3:41

I love it. And I'm sure a lot of listeners are like, amen. That is what we need help with, though. I mean, let's just dive into it. What? Let's just start kind of from the top of it, what are some of the the top two do's and not to do's that you tell people as they're entering into a co parenting relationship?

Julie Beckerman: 4:00

Sure. So we've all heard like the basics and the standards, you know, don't bad mouth, your axe, you know, think, you know, think financially don't think emotionally. And so I'm not going to share some of the stuff that you would have heard over and over. But when it comes to any difficult relationship or going into co parenting, I think what happens for most people, is we lose sight of our anchor. And so the number one, like before you are doing anything, you need to know your goals. So when people say right, in divorce, it's what's in the best interest of the child. So that's a great goal, right? What's in the best of your kid. But that's interest to you and best interest to me and best interest to someone who's making me crazy, right, my axe or whomever could mean very different things. And what happens is we go into this situation where it's completely chaotic. We really don't know what's going on. And now we're supposed to make really strong confident decisions. idea what that actually looks like. So the number one tool is you have to understand what your goal is. And with co parenting clearly it's your kid or your kid. But what does that mean what is putting their best interests first mean to you? So

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 5:22

starting with that, okay, so let's dive in a little bit there because I even just had someone I was texting with right before this and asking them questions because they're kind of going through a difficult divorce and co parenting relationship. And his wife is not really willing. Like she's not really willing to talk to him much about anything, and especially have a conversation of let's, let's talk about what's best for the kids. So how do you deal with that kind of situation where the CO parent is just totally walled off? Yeah. So

Julie Beckerman: 5:54

I would say I would 99.9% of the people that I'm working with are in that situation. Because if you're working with someone who wants to work with you, Bobby a very different situation. So yeah, it's how to work with someone who's not interested in working with you. And before you go into some kind of conflict discussion, you need to know your goal. Right? If my goal so for example, I don't know what the situation was you were dealing with, but let's say it's something like to vaccinate or not vaccinate, hmm. Right. Now, that's a really meaty issue. And I'm sure a lot of people are dealing with that. And within marriages have different views, I'm sure. And so, issue of vaccination. And then you have the difficulty of dealing with the person you have the issue with, and the things so understanding your goal around vaccinations can help you to navigate around those things that a person who's not willing to work with you is going to throw in your way. Because that's what it is. That's what creates the conflict, it's not really the issues that we're dealing with. It's the way in which we're approaching these issues, and makes it very hard to get anywhere. I think the first and foremost, you know, going to how would you deal with it, we'd have to kind of get give me an example. And then we can talk through but the first and foremost, you need to know where you're headed. Why am I even having this debate with this person? Know, are we going to be successful? Or do we need to step out and maybe pursue something else legally a mediate or something like

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 7:34

that? Hmm. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, though. So kind of viewing it as two separate things. There's the actual what's the specific issue we're working with right now? And what's the goal? And then there's the secondary issue of now how do I communicate it to a person that we have tense terms?

Julie Beckerman: 7:53

Right, who's doing everything in their power to make sure that we never actually get to discuss this issue? Yeah. Bring up, let's say, vaccinations, which is issue a neck? Oh, we're talking about when your kid had the flu 13,000 years ago, and didn't make the doctor's appointment? Right. And now you're talking about everything but the issue and happen, that's one example of a way that a difficult person will take you off your point. Yeah.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 8:23

So what about when the issue is and I also want to ask how often you see this as the issue. The one parent not wanting, or not being amicable on the the custody split? So like, it's the issue is, I'm not seeing the kids, because you're keeping the kids you're bad mouthing me to the kids? Do you see that being an issue? And then how do they work through that?

Julie Beckerman: 8:50

So for example, the the parent, what the the other parent is saying, because you're making an issue for me, forget it, I'm not even going to see the kids.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 9:02

That could be one or the parent who has the custody right now is the one saying I'm not going to be like, I'm not willing to, to let you see the kids more often or, you know, keep them from?

Julie Beckerman: 9:17

Okay, so I think right, so you have a parent who's basically like setting up an alienation. Yes, sure. Yeah, that's really tricky. So it's, that's a big, have to understand what you need to do to make that right. So what's your goal, if you're if the parent is alienating you from your kids, what your goal is to see your the ultimate healing with your your the only reason you want to deal with them is to find a way to see your kids, if dealing with them is creating a situation that's not letting you see your kids. It's no longer effective and we need to move on. And bring in outside resort whatever you know, and that that's a little bit more nuanced. But ultimately what will happen is you're going to now go to your your co parent and say, I want to see my kids. Why are you keeping your kids to me and your co parents gonna come back with 1000 reasons why you don't deserve and you can get involved for an hour and a half or indeed an hour and a half you can get involved for your the rest of your life debating those things back and forth. But ultimately, your goal is to to your kids and staying in that conversation. Is that is that going to get you to see your kids? So when app to understanding your goal is so important, because the person you're dealing with is doing everything possible to keep you from achieving that? easily go down a rabbit hole and follow them along. If you're not clear on what your path is before, that's real

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 10:57

good. So identify your goals, keeping the kids in mind. That's great. The another question that we get a lot, I'd love to hear your answers. So how should you tell your kids about what's going on with the marriage separation or divorce?

Julie Beckerman: 11:13

Okay, so just with clear disclosure, not a child psychologist or anything, but I am really, really skilled with communication. And so what I will put back to you is one, it depends on your kids age two, no one knows you that knows your kids better than you. No one knows the relationship you have with your kids better than you. So you would tell them crucial information, the way you would tell them any other crucial information, to the extent that they can understand how it impacts them. Your kids five, four, you don't need to tell them what's happening six months from now, they don't remember, they're not gonna know, it's this is what's happening today. And tomorrow. This is what you need to know you mommy and daddy are doing things separately. right with you, if your kids 16. Different discussion. So one of the key things that I will say in any conversation with your kid is curiosity. Ask more questions than giving information. Oh, how can I help you? How do you feel? What makes you uncomfortable? What would be good for you? What can I do for you? These are the you're going to be able to know what your kid needs, because them down and assume that they're going to need this prototypes. And so that's what I would say ask questions and get information that's relevant to their lives. That's good. They're gonna find on social media, because they're 15. You definitely tell them?

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 12:48

Right? Right. What about the the way the question is worded here is how do you or should you put boundaries in place if your spouse is talking negatively? About you to your children? Okay,

Julie Beckerman: 13:01

I love this question. As what's really challenging about this question is one, courts hate it. There's not a person on the planet who would be like, oh, a good co parent, you know, trash talks there acts like everyone knows it's not, it's not going to help. And yet, it happens all the time we speak. And if we really, really disagree with something someone's doing. So what I love about this is if your ex is bad mouthing you, this is your ideal opportunity to ignore your ex. This is not about you and your apps, this is your chance to connect with your kids. So let's say dad, Dad's telling you that mom is a terrible person. Right? in one way shape, or another's mom is a bad mom, she's careless, she's whatever the things are, that your ex says is bad about you or what you would ask your kids. So if your ex is saying that you are a bad mom, do you think I'm a bad mom? What what are you? Do you have a question for me? You know, things like that. It's this is your opportunity to connect with your kid. Understand what they're asking you and recognize that your kid is not your ex's mouthpiece. You don't need to get mad at them. If they come home and said something to you. You know, let's say your kids 10 They come home like, you know, Mom told me about blowjobs sorry, I don't know this family show. But like you're like, Okay, well, let's fix it right? Like, you're not there's nothing wrong with if they're asking you the question. That's amazing.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 14:44

You'd rather them ask you than

Julie Beckerman: 14:48

you want them to come to you because they're not coming to you to accuse you. And that's the mistake we make. We think if they're saying it, we have to Oh my god. No, no, that's not right. And it's because they're, you want them to come to you and if you yell at them for coming to you, they're not going to come to you again. This is your opportunity. Are you a bad mom? No, you're not. You love your kid and if they're coming to you doesn't matter. If your ex is saying you are you need them to understand. That's that's the key there. Like there it's going to happen. Especially if your ex is difficult, especially if and just they've done a bad night with you and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 15:30

So let's recap what we've learned so far. Only in 10 minutes, you've already gotten great stuff. So it's start with curiosity, or no start with a goal. That's what we talked about first. So identify what is the goal? And wanting to do.

Julie Beckerman: 15:45

And like just to interject, we know in co parenting, the goal is your kids. To clarify for yourself, what does the best interest of my kids mean to me? Hmm. And that's, that's where it gets really tricky. Go ahead. So

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 16:03

perfect. And then, and then with the kids, when you're telling them about things that are happening, especially when the beginning of a separation or divorce, then leaning more into curiosity, ask them more questions about how they're feeling than telling them and just dumping a bunch of information on them, which is unrealistic. And then in the in the last point, it's the same thing. Like even if your spouse is bad mouthing you to them, it's still asking them, oh, what do you think? What do you feel what or I love that? I love that. Let's talk about so when you're having the conversations with the ex spouse or the about to be ex spouse, how do you keep those as much as you can from just becoming besting? Yeah, like from becoming terrible fights. And

Julie Beckerman: 16:56

again, going back, right, so what I mostly around a communication, Coach writing, mostly, when you're dealing with an ex, a lot of its you want it to be written, especially in the beginning, things can get really cold, it's so much stuff that you don't want to like, use your memory, okay? That right there memory. So it's documented, it helps you and go, dealing the way we get out of, I'm sorry, let me back up. The reason 99% of the reason we end up in those, what I call the rabbit hole, nonsense conversations that are just you're like, your hands are shaking, you just cannot like you can't even breathe, you're so mad, is because we don't know why we're in the conversation to begin with. If that point, that conversation has ceased to be effective for anybody. So at that point, whatever your goal was, it's not being met, and you need to exit. So understanding your goal can help you avoid being in a conversation you absolutely do not

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 18:00

need. Hmm, that's really good.

Julie Beckerman: 18:03

Once you're in it, the key to getting out is a little bit more shocking, like snapping a rubber band, you know, like splashing cold water on your face and just being like, Yeah, I know. Right? Because we're already in it. But if we can catch it before, much better. Mm hm.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 18:22

So I love what you said about documenting conversation, especially in instances like this. So a lot of people on our audience, the marriage helper audience are listening might be saying, but you say to try and have the conversations like face to face and things like that. It's true. Like when there's something emotional, that you're trying to communicate, it's best to have more than that. It's even following up with written communication, following up with this as a recap, because that's searchable. That's, you know, the Rolodex of information where you can go back and both of you have it to look at and agree to, yeah, which is a great point. The, what do you do when there's a new, a new partner? So it's an ex husband, he's dating someone new, and the mom, the wife, the ex wife doesn't like her and doesn't want the kids to be around her? How do you handle things like that?

Julie Beckerman: 19:23

Okay, so kind of going back to what you were saying about face to face conversations being written and emotional, like ultimately, the reason it's really good in divorce to do everything written is because we don't want your emotions involved. It's this is divorce is a contract. It's a business agreement. We think it's really romantic. But ultimately, there's taxes, and that's what we're dealing with. And so it's it you want to bring, right you want to think financially, not emotionally and financially meaning assets, including your kids and how that's going to work. So going back to your question, I'm so sorry. You were saying the question I lost because

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 20:05

if the if the, if my partner, my ex spouse is seeing someone that I don't like,

Julie Beckerman: 20:13

right, okay. So ultimately going back to that first, what's the goal? And then thinking, right, for that goal, what's effective? So if my goal is what's in the best interest of my kids, right, I as a as a mom have no right? But there's no leverage There's literally no control over who you write and let even if you put it in the agreement, you know, this is the process like, okay, then if to enforce it. Now you got to go to court and prove that you're not some just, you know, trying to get it your ex. So ultimately, the fact that it bothers you, I'm so sorry, but it's irrelevant. The worst feelings about your ex's new partner is not relevant to helping your kids deal with your ex is nothing, imagine yourself going to work every day. And being terrified of your boss, terrified. I mean, there's nothing more horrible. So if your kid now hates their, you know, parents new partner, and you're sending them there. That's not your job. Your job is, especially Mary as a mom as a dad to make it okay. That whatever they're dealing with whatever reasons we don't like that person, your kid is still going to be able to manage it because you're their parent, and you're going to show them how it's really hard. Mm hmm. thing you can do is to have the confidence in yourself as a parent to know that your kid's gonna be fine.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 21:50

Hmm. How do you encourage parents to leave? I mean, you've already said some great things, but even more of how do they lean in check in with their kids to see how things are going? I mean, is there a time when that should stop?

Julie Beckerman: 22:09

Well, that's again, personal, right? So right and wrong is not really relevant in this. Yes, there's a lot, right? Forget the laws, but right now, it's about you as a parent, and what works for the relationship with your kid. And I'm not going to tell a parent how many times or how often they should check in because it's different, and every relationship is different. But if you're I think it needs to evolve. But it's ever a time where it's not going to benefit a relationship to check in with the other person. Yeah. So and especially what you're teaching your kids is that when things are difficult, it's even more important to lean in and check in with each other.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 22:50

Yeah. Yeah. And how are you encouraging the the person who's coming to you to make sure that they are getting emotionally like what they need in order to be there for their kids?

Julie Beckerman: 23:05

Mm hmm. Well, that's how to make sure that they I ask, yeah, so if you're coming to me, that's a really good start. Because, again, your emotions are real. And CO parent, this is the most important things in your life. And to act like somehow there's not going to be stress or it's going to be fine would be naive. And there is fear and there is worry, and it just doesn't belong with your x. We just cope with it. So how do we deal with it we set up time you you journal you deal with it with your friend however, and we check in am I and if not what else do I need? And the way you start to check in with yourself that you're modeling I'm really difficult time children this is how I so I get a quest questions all the time. Like write us to to like how do I parent my kid through this? What do I tell them? How do I show them how to write and of course we worried about our kids being okay, that's that's the but ultimately what you're what you have this opportunity now is through a really difficult situation is to show your kids is how you get through it. Hmm.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 24:24

That's great. We have a lot of questions coming in about holidays Christmas and birthdays and let's talk about how to handle those and that's pretty open ended that was the question can we discuss holidays Christmas? I'd

Julie Beckerman: 24:39

love to I'd love to throw out my thoughts. Yeah. Again, going back to knowing your goal. And the second thing that we didn't really get that clear you need to know your goal because the second tip is you want to think a mindset of what's effective. Right? Not what's fair, not what is good or bad but what's gonna work for my goal. So let's go to birthdays and holidays. Let's birthday what's the what's the goal on these holidays? And I'm just going to put a blanket What am I be different for everyone but some level of this is a special time. Right? That you know that we want to spend with the people that we love like our kids, and we want the opportunity to have that special memory or time. Okay, so if that's the goal Right like, and there's going to be an issue, and our kids are going to get pulled apart on the holidays. I love ideas that are thinking outside the box, you know what I don't want to fight, take the day, enjoy it, have them, I'm going to make second Christmas, and not to tradition. And ultimately, if my goal is to create a tradition and a special memory with my kids and make them feel special, then who cares what day you can write in, you've got family, and I get it, there's all these pieces. But what we really want to do is Bear HOW to be the most effective or goals with holidays. Unfortunately, or fortunately, you can fight for them. By the time let's say if your ex is so unwilling to work with you, by the time you actually got it looked at the palette is already past. So you really want to do with your time do you want to spend time fighting? Or would you rather buy the day and just come up with your own? And that's, that's up to you each time? Yeah, that makes sense.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 26:39

total sense? And I'm also just thinking about the way because the kids know if you're fighting about it, or you know if there's negative feelings about it, so how much even harder? Does it make it for the kids? When they feel like because of me, my parents are mad on customer.

Julie Beckerman: 26:57

A when one parents pissed? Yes, you're playing point, ultimately, if our kids are the goal, and the best interest, which doesn't mean sacrificing or compromising our own well being, because that's part of what makes us a good parent. But understand, like, what is this gonna do for them? And how effective is my fighting? Oh, for them of having this time with them. Sometimes it's worth the fight. But again, knowing your goal in advance can help us decide which fights we're gonna take all the way. And which is not worth it. Hmm.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 27:39

We have some some other questions coming in of some moms asking, but what age is okay for my kid to go across country or across? continents? Like if they're leaving the country? Like, how do I navigate that? How do you help especially moms navigate those things? Like?

Julie Beckerman: 28:04

So wait, is the question their kid is very young. And take them across the country?

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 28:10

Yeah. So she says specifically with going abroad for holidays? I don't know that I would feel comfortable letting my baby Leave me. Like what is okay, for a baby or toddler? What age is okay for a baby slash toddler to leave their mom? That was?

Julie Beckerman: 28:25

Okay. So it's a great question. Because again, it goes back to it's not about what you're this particular mom is going to have one feeling valid. You, you know, your comfort level? And I feel like I don't care. Go ahead. Just don't do it on Christmas, right? Like it's not right or wrong. It's what feels right to you. And can you kind of justify it. So for if you're not comfortable? The question is not whether it's right or wrong, it's okay, this is not right for my kid. What are the steps that I need to take that are going to make me effective? And making sure my kid doesn't go abroad? Because that's the goal. Not if it's wrong, it's clearly you're not comfortable? So it's right. Hmm.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 29:14

So how would you encourage that mom to approach that with the ex husband?

Julie Beckerman: 29:20

Okay, so in terms of dealing with a particular issue with someone who has, right, you're saying up that parents saying down, you have a conflict go abroad don't go abroad? There's, you have to first understand the system. So if you were to escalate this, right, if you can't resolve it with your ex directly, or says, What are the judges saying if this were to go to a mediator? What are they going to say? Help you decide? Do I want to escalate it? If and so the first step is you always and even if you go to court, the court is going to send you back to try to deal directly with your ex. So you want to communicate in the best way possible. Your position and what what it is that you want. Your ex is going to agree, not agree. ignore you, fight you, right, there's a number of things they'll come back with based on what they come back with determines this is either effective to deal with my ex, or I need to go to the next level. A sick like business escalation right Written termination, verbal warning, written warning, and then you're fired. That's kind of what you're doing verbal verbal discussion as they to mediate a discussion, and then I'm going to have to take it to court, if it's something I feel really strongly about, and the court will hear it. And so in terms of that's where it gets really important to understand your goals, and then understand your ability to be effective. Hmm,

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 31:02

that makes sense. Yeah, it does make sense. Now, not taking the the question we just answered, but just taking kind of the principles of, I think, a mom or a dad could take that, that mindset of, well, if I'm not comfortable with it, maybe uncomfortable with anything like at what point do you have? Do you push back and say, but are you really still having the best interest of your child at heart versus just what you're most comfortable with? I guess what I'm getting down to here is, it's important that they spend time with both parents, it's important that both parents as long as it is healthy and safe, are a part of the kid's life. That can be hard to deal with when the emotional pain from the marriage is layered on top of how you think about them. Yeah, otherwise. So what what what would you speak into that?

Julie Beckerman: 32:00

I think again, it's about Okay, so when we're talking about knowing your goal, you can't decide that in the moment. You're going to situation, right? So marriage is your, your family, your home, your socio, your social life, your economics, it's everything that matters. Now, all of a sudden, it's like, you're ripping that apart and trying to figure out where the pieces fall, don't don't decide in the moment what to do, you need to think about that in advance. And when it comes to thinking about it in advance, what that helps us do is bypass the emotional response. For a great example of this, right? So for example, when you wake up in the morning, the alarm goes off, we've all been waking up to go to school every nobody wakes up to them. Like I mean some people do. Most people are like, Oh, I hate this. But we get up. Yeah. Want to we just do it. This is the same. You don't have to want to kind of be calm and put your emotions to the side. But you're you will. You can't with planning. Right? Alarm clock you knew the night before why you were getting up what time what you needed to do what time you needed to be there, like wake up in the morning, like, Okay, let me just figure it out. You wouldn't do this is the most important things in your life. Don't wing it and let your emotions which change emotion motion moves, moves every, like 30 minutes. You do not want your emotions in the driver's seat when you're making difficult decisions with a difficult person, about your children and the other most important things in your life. Yeah. Planning and practice helps us manage the emotions.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 33:49

What do you do if the parent does not show up for time?

Julie Beckerman: 33:55

Similar to when they're bad mouthing you? Right, what you're doing is it's an opportunity to address your kids. Yeah, that must really feel bad when dad doesn't show up. How do you feel? What can I do? That is really hard. I would feel bad to do you know what I would do you know what I do when I feel bad? You can't You're not your your job is never to try to hold your ex accountable to being a good parent. It is only simply to parent your kids given the other parent that they have. And it sucks. When their parent doesn't show up. It sucks. And you can only be there to help them and sucks and I'm here. Yeah. And the other piece to this is the logistics. If you have a co parent that consistently drops the ball. Your job is to triage you, you need to know that just because they're planning to show up don't schedule your most important appointment then you have backup because you may need right you may need to cover them. Right. Right. So that's the other piece of it too. Yeah.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 35:10

Yeah. Yeah, that's so good. And, and really just fits into this whole conversation of if you're as you're putting the kids first is that's the goal overall. Then it helps you to formulate your decisions, your reactions, your how you need to show up how you need self care in order to show up and be there for your kid. That's so great. It really? Oh, go ahead. No, you go ahead.

Julie Beckerman: 35:39

This child centered divorce, you know, it's really his understanding, right best interest of the child. That's a law. But that's okay, what's best for you? And like, look, you've got two parents who clearly see what's best is very different. So the specific you can be about what that means for you. Right? Does keeping them safe from COVID? Is it education? Is it health? And is it religion? Right like war vet, and those go even deeper, but the closer more specific you can get to the things that matter to you, the easier it is to decide those fights, when it's enough is enough. I'm not doing this any kind of thing. Mm hm.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 36:21

And it, I guess the kids get older as they as they become teenagers. And then there's some things they get to make decisions on. So what do you do if your kid doesn't want to spend doesn't want to go to their dads, when it's the weekend with their dads or doesn't want to be with you the weekend? They want to be with you?

Julie Beckerman: 36:40

Mm hmm. Yeah. It's really funny, so that my daughter actually asked me that question. She was like, what would you do if I was like, I don't want to live here anymore. And I was like, I'd kill you. No, I'm just kidding. Um, ultimately, it's the same approach as anything. Right. It's curiosity. Okay. Like, I think if that comes up, our immediate reaction is to get angry, just like if we hear our kids saying, you know, those negative things that, you know, their other parent might have said about us? It's like, Wait, why are you saying that? I think the curiosity Okay. Well, that's interesting. Like, I felt that tell me more. What's going on? Why is that important to you right now? Because if they're coming to you, and you're react, like, if it's out of anger, it's an emotional response. It's not thought out. Like anything you want to understand their goal. Why is it important for them to move right now? And what's going on? So that we can really make an effective decision? Make sure it's not one out of anger? Or because God forbid something really, you know, the neighbor did something bad. And now they want to skate? Who knows? Right? There's always reasons you want to ask with curiosity. them? Maybe it's not about you. Maybe they like the boy down the street, and they just want to live closer. And then they're definitely not moving there. No, I'm just kidding. But I think that's really key. Because if we don't ask we make assumptions. Yeah. And those assumptions can really contribute to some of our discomfort. So

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 38:11

yeah. I love it. Well, Julie, what are your top you've shared some of them. But even for those who have joined, and they haven't heard the whole thing, as we're wrapping up, what are the top do's and don'ts that you would give for co parenting effectively and child centered?

Julie Beckerman: 38:28

Okay, so, the first do's and don'ts is you need to know your goal. And when I say know your goal, right, going back, you need to understand what best interest of the child means to you. Like, really, this is, these are the things that I think are best. And that will really help. The second most important thing is your mindset. We need to stop thinking about what's fair, what's right, what's good, and what's bad, and start thinking about what's effective. Especially when you're dealing with your child's other parent who has as many rights as you do in determining what's right for their kid. It's what's effective for what I believe is right. Another one is, oh, this is a huge one. Especially if you have a parent who's bad mouthing you. Our our instinct is to go around and run defense. Well, do you know, right? We want to convince the world why they are bad and we're not. And what I will tell you is stop trying, you are not your ex's PR person. They're not paying you well enough to do that. Stop convincing the world who your ex is, even if they hear you and get it. It does nothing for you. It does nothing. There's no Mic drop. There's no applause. It's okay. Yeah, your axe is psycho. That's it, you don't get anything. Your job is to be your own PR person. So that goes around saying You're a lunatic or terrible person or XYZ. Okay. And yet here I am amazing. So whatever, right? That's your job. So stop in the world of why your ex is who they are. So I think those I mean, there's there's a lot but ultimately, they all boil down to the same thing. And that's, you know, using are not using our emotions in a very, very emotional situation to drive the car. Want to use our thoughts, how we're thinking about it or our actions, what we're doing about it? And our feelings are unfortunately, just a little bit along for the ride. Mm hmm.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 40:46

So everyone listening, you can follow, Julie, I think the way you do it is pressing the top. Yes. And you can press. You guys follow her, follow her on Instagram. If you're not following marriage helper, you can follow us as well. But Julie, tell us a little bit more about how people can find you other than Instagram, and what are some of the ways that you help with child centered co parenting? Yes, so

Julie Beckerman: 41:07

definitely follow me on Instagram. That's where I post every day. And I really put it out there that it's a little bit, I believe, a little bit more unique. It's not your kind of standard tips. And reach out to me and I have a program. And it's like six weeks, and it will change your life. And I just graduated a number of people off the program this past week, I actually have a client who is ex contacted me and it works so well that she ended up contacting me and the two of them, I swear I'm going to get invited to the wedding. I'm swear. But like, so it's really powerful. It's not going to fix everything. Yeah, I can give you a language to deal with the common difficult challenges that come along in these relationships. So please reach out to me worst case, let's have a conversation. And I'll yeah,

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 42:03

how does so your program is six weeks? Can you tell us a little bit more about how it works? Is it video driven? Is it

Julie Beckerman: 42:11

kind of like if you think, right, so all of these things that we're talking about our muscle. So what we do is you come in, we meet on video, and we go through whatever issues we apply a tool that I'm teaching you to apply in your specific situation. And then over the week, you're practicing. So for learning, for example, bicep curls, now over the week, you're going to practice your bicep curls. So you come back and you're stronger. And so that's how it works. It's six weeks, it's like an hour on a video. And then the best part about it, especially if anyone's dealing with a lawyer, a lot less expensive than a lawyer and I am your first point of contact. I get texts, middle of the night like Julie, you cannot believe what he just said to me. And it's good because what it's doing is training your brain to take a step. Yeah. Or you're reacting. Right. And so yeah, by the end of the six weeks, what people have is that feeling where messages come in, things are coming up and you don't have that sick to your stomach. hands are shaking. I don't even want to look at it feeling. I'm kidding. I know what I'm gonna I don't have to like it. But I know I do here. Yeah. Does that. So really, I mean, like, this would be six weeks me and you like this Hangout, we got to talk. So

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 43:33

fantastic. That's fantastic. In such a need. There's such a need even for a lot of the marriage helper clients where I mean, that's it like they want to save their marriage, but they're still having to deal with the crazy right now. Yeah, and so really helping with just emotionally let's call me down. So that in of course for us, it's hopefully your marriage can be saved. That's our goal, and we see it happen. But no matter what happens, you're always going to be co parents to these

Julie Beckerman: 44:01

events. And so when I back in the day, when I went to a marriage counselor, this quote stuck with me. And it's the same tools you need for a good divorce for good marriage are the ones you need for a good divorce. So we urge to work out these the way you deal in your divorce is going to it's going to strengthen that relationship wherever it's existing. And communication. Effective communication is effective communication, married divorced business kit otherwise, so these are principles that are universal. That's right. That's it.

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 44:40

Thank you so much, Julie, for joining us. having me. It's been such a pleasure. Yeah, giving our audience some amazing tips. I love what you said. Thank you for doing what you do and having a heart for, for keeping those kids the goal of a healthy co parenting relationship. It's awesome.

Julie Beckerman: 44:58

Thank you and same to you. Thanks very

Kimberly Beam Holmes: 45:01

soon. Okay, bye. Bye. The key pies takeaways for how to deal with co parenting and have great co parenting in your relationship. The first is, let's remember pies. becoming the best you can be physically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually. And there are the situations where you either because of your choice or your spouse's choice, maybe they've remarried or your ex spouse's choice, that it is no longer an option. This marriage is going to be saved. Even when you get to that point, the pies are still important in thinking about how can I become the most attractive I can be to have great relationships in my life. They don't just have to be about romantically attracting someone else to you. So think about the pies, that the conversation I just had with Julie in terms of how can I be the most attractive so that my children will want to come talk to me, so that I can have a great co parenting relationship? And that's really going to focus around that emotional attraction? How can you evoke emotions within your kids even evoke emotions within the other parent that you're co parenting with, that lead to the best of your ability to have an amicable and great relationship? Because remember, the worst thing that can happen for kids is for their parents to divorce and still experience high conflict. I also love Julie's points about asking your kids more questions lean into how they're feeling with curiosity. I believe that is the strongest thing any of us can do as parents, but especially when they're experiencing loss, and hurt and pain from a divorce that they are having to experience and they don't really have the ability to wrap their mind around as kids. And then the final point I have is to remember that you are not your spouse's PR person or your ex spouse's PR person. Now, I will caveat that by saying I do believe that you should say positive things or at least neutral things to your children about your spouse, not negative things, because that is the worst thing that you can do. But ultimately, their decisions or their decisions, it's not a reflection on you. But remember, you also don't want your kids to feel like they have a parent that you hate. And they're going to take some of that on and maybe feel like you don't like them either. I hope that you found great value from this conversation. Be sure that you share this podcast episode with someone that you know who needs it, and you can give hope to them.