In this enlightening episode, we dive deep into the world of stress management with the expertise of Dr. Marsha Brown, a licensed psychologist with extensive experience in high-conflict environments and corporate stress mitigation. Whether it's the overwhelm of daily tasks, the high demands of our jobs, or the challenges of maintaining work-life balance, Dr. Brown shares invaluable insights and practical strategies for coping with stress. Discover how to set effective boundaries to prevent burnout, identify stress triggers, and find joy in restorative activities. If you're looking to enhance your resilience, improve your well-being, and foster healthier relationships despite life's pressures, this conversation is a must-listen. Dr. Brown's experience with organizations like the US Chamber of Commerce and the Red Cross of Florida, coupled with her media features, positions her as a leading voice in stress management and mental wellness. Tune in to transform your approach to stress and unlock a more fulfilling, balanced life. Let's dive in!
Today's Guest: Dr. Marsha Brown
Dr. Marsha D. Brown is a Licensed Psychologist with extensive experience in the assessment, evaluation, diagnosis, and treatment of individuals of all ages. Dr. Marsha has worked in the mental health field for over 15 years, much of it in high-conflict, court-involved settings. As a mental health expert, Dr. Marsha is needed and present for intense, critical, and complicated situations. She is also often tasked with helping those who are struggling to overcome extreme crises. Dr. Marsha is the Founder and CEO of Deconstructing Wellness, LLC (DW). DW works with organizations to implement procedures that prioritize wellbeing and teach their teams skills to conquer stress. Dr. Marsha has provided trainings for organizations including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, The Red Cross of South Florida, the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI of Broward County), and the United Way of Broward County. She has also been featured in media outlets including the New York Times and USA Today.
Links:
drmarshabrown.com
Your Host: Kimberly Beam Holmes, Expert in Self-Improvement and Relationships
Kimberly Beam Holmes has applied her master's degree in psychology for over ten years, acting as the CEO of Marriage Helper & CEO and Creator of PIES University, being a wife and mother herself, and researching how attraction affects relationships. Her videos, podcasts, and following reach over 200,000 people a month who are making changes and becoming the best they can be.
Website: www.kimberlybeamholmes.com
Thanks for listening!
Connect on Instagram: @kimberlybeamholmes
Be sure to SUBSCRIBE to the podcast and leave a review!
WE HAVE A NEW WEBSITE!!
Visit www.itstartswithattraction.com to check it out!
In this enlightening episode, we dive deep into the world of stress management with the expertise of Dr. Marsha Brown, a licensed psychologist with extensive experience in high-conflict environments and corporate stress mitigation. Whether it's the overwhelm of daily tasks, the high demands of our jobs, or the challenges of maintaining work-life balance, Dr. Brown shares invaluable insights and practical strategies for coping with stress. Discover how to set effective boundaries to prevent burnout, identify stress triggers, and find joy in restorative activities. If you're looking to enhance your resilience, improve your well-being, and foster healthier relationships despite life's pressures, this conversation is a must-listen. Dr. Brown's experience with organizations like the US Chamber of Commerce and the Red Cross of Florida, coupled with her media features, positions her as a leading voice in stress management and mental wellness. Tune in to transform your approach to stress and unlock a more fulfilling, balanced life. Let's dive in!
Today's Guest: Dr. Marsha Brown
Dr. Marsha D. Brown is a Licensed Psychologist with extensive experience in the assessment, evaluation, diagnosis, and treatment of individuals of all ages. Dr. Marsha has worked in the mental health field for over 15 years, much of it in high-conflict, court-involved settings. As a mental health expert, Dr. Marsha is needed and present for intense, critical, and complicated situations. She is also often tasked with helping those who are struggling to overcome extreme crises. Dr. Marsha is the Founder and CEO of Deconstructing Wellness, LLC (DW). DW works with organizations to implement procedures that prioritize wellbeing and teach their teams skills to conquer stress. Dr. Marsha has provided trainings for organizations including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, The Red Cross of South Florida, the National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI of Broward County), and the United Way of Broward County. She has also been featured in media outlets including the New York Times and USA Today.
Links:
drmarshabrown.com
Your Host: Kimberly Beam Holmes, Expert in Self-Improvement and Relationships
Kimberly Beam Holmes has applied her master's degree in psychology for over ten years, acting as the CEO of Marriage Helper & CEO and Creator of PIES University, being a wife and mother herself, and researching how attraction affects relationships. Her videos, podcasts, and following reach over 200,000 people a month who are making changes and becoming the best they can be.
Website: www.kimberlybeamholmes.com
Thanks for listening!
Connect on Instagram: @kimberlybeamholmes
Be sure to SUBSCRIBE to the podcast and leave a review!
WE HAVE A NEW WEBSITE!!
Visit www.itstartswithattraction.com to check it out!
If you've ever struggled with feeling stressed out, then today's episode is for you, which likely means today's episode is for every single one of you, because I have never met someone who's never felt stressed out, although technically, I think there is a condition that some people have where they don't produce enough cortisol and they actually don't get stressed out. But we won't get into that today because that's incredibly rare and likely not what you're experiencing. Today I'm speaking with Dr Marsha Brown. She is a licensed psychologist and in her work she has worked in very high conflict settings like high conflict courtroom cases, things like that in her past to really help people learn how to manage their stress. But now she has started going into companies and helping team members and employees better mitigate their stress, to not experience burnout, set better boundaries all really important things. But I know that I can benefit from more and I believe that you can too.
Speaker 1:Dr Brown has been doing work for the US Chamber of Commerce, the Red Cross of Florida, the National Alliance of Mental Illness and the United Way in Florida, where she lives. She's also been featured in many media outlets, including New York Times and USA Today, and today she's joining us on this podcast of it Starts With Attraction. Let's dive into today's episode. Dr Marsha Brown, I'm so happy to have you on the show and even in the brief conversation we had right before pressing record, I was like, oh my gosh, you're gonna have to say some of these things again because it was so good. But thank you so much for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I've been excited.
Speaker 1:You just said something that I'll start with the opening question in, and you were talking about what you do in working with companies to help team members, employees, to mitigate their stress with their job and different things like that. And one of the things that you said was that you kind of started initially with people who were in high stress jobs, but then you said now everyone is in a high stress job. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:By that I mean that everyone who has any kind of employment has a great deal of stress. Just in today's environment, we had the pandemic, which I think kicked up the level of anxiety and stress that people are experiencing, and so I think all of these stressors can be applied to any job. It's not just, as I explained, the people I started out with, so I started out with attorneys and law enforcement and healthcare, medical professionals, people like that. Those were my main focus at the beginning, but all of these things can be applied to any profession or any job, because all these principles are relevant in terms of the amount of stressors that people face in the workplace.
Speaker 1:What are some of the common stressors that people are seeing more of now in the workplace than they did five or 10 years ago?
Speaker 2:We're seeing a lot of decreased workforces. So you have before there was a team of 20 people getting things done, and then the company decided to downsize. So now we have a team of four people who are still expected to complete the same number of tasks that 20 people were taken care of. So there are fewer resources, but there's still a demand to increase workload, increase productivity, and so people are really starting to buckle under that weight because it really is unreasonable and it's untenable. So you have overwhelming workload. There are a lot of situations where, for example, toxicity in the workplace is a pretty huge issue and there's I don't know that we're facing more of it now than we did 10 years ago, but it's definitely come to the forefront and it's people are more vocal about it and you're seeing more instances of it, so that can be a huge stressor in the workplace. That wasn't there before. And really just the resources. You've got high turnover. You've got companies themselves downsizing, so those are a couple of the things that people are dealing a lot more with these days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Now when we talk about stress in the workplace or at home or kind of in any scenario, what is the working definition of stress that you use?
Speaker 2:The most basic definition I use is just stress is what we experience as humans. Stress is what we experience when we're trying to adapt to changes in our circumstances or our environment, and so, as you can imagine, that could be good or bad. It's still a type of stress, right? So people always say well, what are you talking about? There are good stressors too, and that's true, but we're gonna focus, I'm assuming, on the more negative stressors. So, for example, people say, if you get a new job that you've been waiting to get for a really long time, that's a good stressor and it is, but it's still a stressor. And then when we talk about bad stressors we can talk about like overwhelm at home or in the workplace. We can talk about sort of financial stressors that everybody has, the stressors of taking care of family, taking care of children, things like that. So the stress in general is just our natural response, what we experience when we are adapting to our circumstances or changes, or our circumstances or situation.
Speaker 1:Hmm, would you call it chronic stress or maybe something else? I'm thinking about times and situations where there's been things that don't necessarily get better. So, for example, I'll look at my calendar for a day and I'm like man, there's no downtime, or there's an inbox full of things that I feel like I'm expected to reply to, and so there's just this feeling of overwhelm and expectation and pressure to perform that never seems to go away. So would you still consider that stress, or would you say that that begins to move into something greater than just an acute form of stress?
Speaker 2:You hit the nail on the head when you said chronic stress, because that's exactly what it is it's chronic stress. So when we have acute stress it's a situation where we sort of get into a fight or flight mode, right, and so that engages what's called our sympathetic nervous system. So our body starts pumping adrenaline into our system. Our people's dialing, our breathing, gets to be more shallow and we get into that mode of we're in danger and we have to fix it right. We have to get ourselves out of whatever danger that is.
Speaker 2:Now, ideally, once the danger passes, we come back down to baseline and our breathing deepens and our heart rate slows down and we get back to normal. Our body starts, stops pumping out all of the things into our blood that it was pumping out before and we go about our business. We're good to go. The problem is that with chronic stress we stay in that kind of mode of fight or flight right, and we never come back down to baseline. So when that happens, when we get into the chronic stress or so, we always stay kind of in a heightened emotional response state. That's when it becomes a problem, when we start to develop different medical, physical, psychological issues, because chronic stress is terrible for us in every way imaginable.
Speaker 1:Don't you also think that there's a group of people who have been so used to feeling that way that they don't know what it would feel like to not have chronic stress?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes. And your body starts to. Since you're so used to feeling that way, it starts to feel normal. So have you ever met someone who will tell you like they can't sit still or they can't sit down or they can't do nothing, and they feel like if they try to take a break for like 30 minutes, their mind is going, going, going, telling them well, you could be answering emails, you could be doing laundry, why don't you just throw a load on the watch? You could be preparing your menu for next week. So just sort of the mind telling them you should be doing this.
Speaker 2:So they get used to that kind of being chronically stressed and always feeling like they have to do something. So then when they try to relax or they're in a situation where they're supposed to be relaxed, they can't really do it. And yes, they do get used to it. And the problem is sometimes people don't recognize that they're in that state until they get out of that state. So, for example, I've had a lot of people say that they were in a toxic work environment for years and they didn't realize how bad it was until they left and they went to another place where they just got out of that constant emotional stressor.
Speaker 2:And when they finally were able to sort of exhale they were like, oh, I never realized how bad things really were until I got out of that situation. And so that happens a lot, where people don't even recognize that they're stressed. You ask them like hey, are you feeling stress, are you stressed out? And they're like, no, I'm absolutely fine. But you talk to them a little bit more and you talk about some of the possible symptoms of being stressed and they check off every single one of them and they're like oh, I guess I am feeling some stress.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said have you ever met a person who I'm thinking, yes, I have, it's me, hi, yes, okay, right, 100%.
Speaker 1:And I think one of the things is I've probably told myself for a really long time well, that's just the way I'm wired.
Speaker 1:I'm wired to be a doer until you know, get stuff done and constantly be achieving or working or whatever.
Speaker 1:And so a couple of years ago was the first time my husband and I went not the first time we went on a vacation, but it was the first time I went on a vacation and completely disconnected from email, computer, internet, for four days.
Speaker 1:And for the first two days I felt like I was this wound up ball of yarn that like needed to be unraveled but didn't know how. And then that third day it was like this unraveling began to happen. And by day four I felt so chill, like I felt like I had drank something, but I hadn't drank anything, and I remember that feeling and I think that's what it feels like to probably not be stressed, but I don't know that I've gotten back to that feeling in the past couple of years. So what do you say to people who they're just very driven Like they continue to put themselves in environments or in jobs or in situations where they say yes to a lot of things and they feel like they don't have the bandwidth for rest or for relaxation or for whatever it is that would cause them to become unstressed.
Speaker 2:I think that's yeah, that's an excellent question, because I run into that all the time, where it's just sort of like I don't have time because I need to get things done or I can't relax. I'm just a person that, as you said, because I hear that all the time, like I'm just wired to do it, like my relaxation is working, like I feel better when I'm being productive and if I'm not productive, if I'm just relaxing, it's gonna make me more anxious or it's gonna stress me out more, right, and I usually try to explain that for people who are very productivity focused also making the shift to understand that being productive doesn't necessarily mean checking things off of your to-do list. Being productive is also doing something to take care of your body and your mind, and when you are taking care of your body and your mind, you can actually get more done during the periods when you're supposed to be working. So I think what a lot of people don't see is when you think about it, if you have a day that you're working, let's say an eight hour day, and you're going from the time you start to the time you stop, with no breaks whatsoever, at the end of that eight hours you're exhausted mentally, physically, your mind is wiped. But if, during those eight hours, you take perhaps a one hour lunch break, right, and you leave your desk and you take a walk or you do something that allows you to completely disconnect from work, you're more refreshed for the next part of what you're doing and you'll actually find that you're a lot more productive as well once you learn that skill of actually disconnecting.
Speaker 2:And so a lot of people find that they're able to actually get more done when they're actually taking breaks, as opposed to just sort of piling on stressor after stressor throughout the day. And I think that is kind of what I start to tell people and what I try to help them to focus on. So for the people who are like, yes, but this person needs me. So a lot of helping professions, there's this idea that no one else can do it, it has to be me. I have to help these people do whatever. It is Also understanding that if you are taking care of yourself and you are in a good place mentally and physically, you can better serve the people that you are looking to serve. Because if you're exhausted and you're in a terrible place mentally, emotionally, physically, who are you helping? Yeah, you're not gonna be as effective, and so sometimes that's really a difficult conversation to have and it's a lot sometimes for people to fully kind of embrace that.
Speaker 1:What is the connection between boundaries and burnout?
Speaker 2:There's a huge connection between boundaries and burnout. In order to avoid burnout you have to have boundaries. Boundaries are what protect us from burnout, so boundaries are basically limitations or barriers that protect us from mental, physical or emotional harm. And so if you think about kind of our demands every day we have work, we have family, we have friends, we have all sorts of obligations that we generally have to deal with and if we don't have any boundaries, so limitations to what we're able to do, what we're able to provide, then that means we are basically stuck being at the mercy of everybody else's demands and whims and expectations. Because for the people around us, the people that we love or the people that we work with, or for somebody always needs something. That's just kind of the nature of life is that there's a lot of need around us.
Speaker 2:And so if we're not understanding what our limitations are and what we're able to do versus what we're not able to do, we can't communicate that to the people around us, which means that anytime someone asks us to can you do me this favor, or I need you to do this, or whatever the case may be, we can have a tendency to just say yes to everyone before we're really assessing if we really have the bandwidth, if you will, to take on those tasks and to really receive those requests and to do what's being asked of us.
Speaker 2:And so without the ability to identify it for ourselves and tell other people and then enforce it, then we are gonna end up burned out because we end up being spread too thin and trying to do too much. And I think one thing that sometimes we can fall into the trap of expecting other people to know what our limitations are and expecting them. So, for example, we'll sometimes hear people say I can't believe he asked me to do that. Like doesn't he know how busy I am? Like I have so much stuff on my plate, like why would you even put that on me? But it's not really anybody else's responsibility to know what you're capable of or what your limitations are, because really only you know that and you would have to communicate that with other people. So, essentially, without boundaries, we end up burned out.
Speaker 1:How can someone identify where they need to set boundaries? And then what are some ways that they can go about expressing the setting of their boundaries? Cause I think this is where a lot of people get stuck too. Either they don't know what to say, they don't wanna come across as mean or rude, or have people think differently of them. So how, first of all, how do you identify where are the actual boundaries I need to set, and then how do I communicate that to other people?
Speaker 2:Yes, excellent question. So it's really important to know what people and activities give you energy versus completely drain your energy, right? So I think most of us can picture a person who, after we spend time with them, we feel like inspired, we feel like all right, I'm gonna conquer the world, or we feel refreshed, or we feel like a sense of just a sense of calm or a sense of something positive. On the flip side, we also know a person who, after we have an interaction with them, it's like I need a nap, kind of thing. You know what I mean? Like this was a lot, like this was just a lot. I'm overstimulated. I need to just not be connected with people for a little bit, right, and just like with people that are either draining or, you know, refreshing. Activities are that way too. So once you figure out what it is that is refreshing versus draining for you, you're looking at the things that are kind of draining and that kind of suck some energy out of you and you're putting limitations on whatever that is. So if it's a person who's very draining, you want to make sure that you are finding ways to limit your interactions with that person, right? And of course, as you know, we all know there may be situations where we don't necessarily have a whole lot of control over that. So, for example, if that person that you need to take a nap after speaking to you as your boss, you're gonna handle that very differently than if the person is your next-door neighbor or somebody who is or was your friend, things like that. So, really figuring out where it is that, like what it is, that exhausts you and what those activities are, and finding ways to limit those. And if you really do have a situation where every interaction or every task is exhausting, finding ways to break it up so that it's not you know, speaking specifically of the workplace breaking it up so it's not task after task after task that's just draining and draining and draining, and that you are finding time in between those to disconnect and to sort of replenish your stores.
Speaker 2:In terms of setting boundaries and like how to say things, I think, being honest and presenting it in a non-judgmental way and a very calm and respectful way and letting a person know. So, for example, I hear a lot of people feeling they need to put boundaries up about, for example, team meetings so they might have a manager or they might have an employee if they're a manager who speaks to them in a disrespectful manner sometimes it's just yelling, sometimes it's sarcasm it's something that makes them feel belittled and disrespected. And so, with things like that saying you know, when you yell at me during team meetings, it makes me feel belittled and disrespected and not like a valued member of the team. And in order to be more effective in doing my job and presenting the information that you asked me to compile and present during this meeting, I need to feel that, I need to feel valued. So can we, you know, can we make it so that you're not yelling at me at all, but especially in front of the team? And could you, if you are upset or you need some clarification or you don't understand something that it is that I'm, you know, putting out there, could we wait until I've finished presenting and you can ask questions then or whatever it is that you feel like you need?
Speaker 2:So really saying, when you do this, I feel this way. What I need is this and can we and offer a possible solution for it? That can be very helpful in terms of setting that boundary. I would say the thing to definitely not do is just to eat it, because I think that's what we do a lot of times when we're sort of afraid that you know somebody's kind of a wild card, you don't know how they're going to respond, and so maybe I can just like deal with it or just ignore them or just phone a friend, you know afterwards or something. But I would say that that may not be the best course of action, because the longer we don't say anything, the more that, the more the idea is that that's acceptable behavior, or that it doesn't bother us, or that this is, you know, kind of a normal business behavior.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in your in your bio it also talks about how you you used to I don't know, maybe you still do also work in the high conflict court setting environments and one of, as you were saying that.
Speaker 1:Another question that came up was if someone has a lot of nervous energy or anxiety about setting boundaries, especially for the first time, and they, you know their stress is is high just thinking about it and actually going into that first conversation, what are some tips that you would give them of regulating their emotions in the moment, and not even just in that, I mean that's that's a key moment too. But just in other times, when you know they find out some information or a friend lied to them, or you know just in life, like we're kind of hit with things out of the ordinary that we might have an initial emotional response to that, maybe we shouldn't base our what we're going to do or say off of so what would your tips? Or like, wait, how do we handle that? How do we handle that when emotions are high but we need to address an issue?
Speaker 2:I think that it's important to take at least a minute to sort of step back, and because you can't unring a bell, and so when we're in a heightened emotional state, we may do or say things that we can't take back, and not necessarily we can't take back that will impact someone else, but we can't take back that will negatively impact ourselves. So I think it's important to sort of take back that. I think it's important to sort of take a breather. I think what also helps some people I know that it helps me a lot is to understand that very little of what other people do to us has anything to do with us, and by that I mean everyone is behaving from and reacting from a space that's largely impacted and colored by our own personal experiences, right? So when someone is doing something that we're perceiving as offensive or mean or whatever the case may be, a lot of times it has nothing to do with us, but it has to do with their own stuff that they're dealing with in the moment, and so it could be I mean it could be, mean it could be absolutely targeted to us. I don't know, because I don't read minds and none of us reads minds right, but I think that really keeping in mind that what may be happening might not have anything to do with me, is what I always think is that, for example, if I run into somebody in a store, the cashiers ringing me up and they're really rude, and I'm just kind of like, wow, what's wrong here? Understanding that that likely has nothing to do with you. You have just interacted with this person, you've just encountered this person for the very first time ever, so what reason would they have to dislike you or to behave in this way, specifically because of you? It's most likely something happened the moment before that you have no idea, or they're going through something that is causing them to behave in this way.
Speaker 2:And I think, also just understanding that everybody's struggling with something. It doesn't matter you know where they are in life or what they look like or how happy it seems that they are and how completely problem and carefree they seem to be. Everybody's struggling with something and we are not privy to what that is. So really understanding that this might not have anything to do with us. I think that helps in moments of like heightened emotion, when we're kind of seeing people do things that we really take issue with. So I think that's what I would say. Does that answer the question?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. It reminds me of that quote I can't remember who it's attributed to, but something like when I was in my 20s, I was worried about what people would think of me, and then there's something else about your 40s. But then when I got to my 60s, I realized no one was thinking about me. Yes, right, yeah, very true, but it's hard because kind of the stories that we tell ourselves in certain situations can be that this was, this is because they're mad at me, this is because they're targeting me, this is because you know, because it's the way our mind is trying to make sense of what's going on.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean so thinking through. You know this likely has nothing to do with you, may sometimes be easier said than done, but at least it's a good awareness reminder for people to just remember everyone's going through their own stuff, as you said.
Speaker 2:I think so, and I would add as well that even if they are doing it to target you, that's still not necessarily you. That's still them. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, they might be doing it to target you, they may be really upset with you, they might be being passive, aggressive towards you, I don't know, but that's their own junk that they're bringing to the table in some cases, right? So of course, I think it's important to assess, kind of you know, we've all played some role in getting to the places where we sit today.
Speaker 2:So, figuring out, you know, how did I play a role in this? Like was it? You know, was I a starring player in this or was I sort of just a one-liner coming in, kind of thing, when you think about it? But yeah, I think that even if that's the case that they're really upset or whatever the case may be, and they're doing this because of something about me, that's still an issue that they're having and, depending on if it's like a close friend or a close co-worker or somebody that you really would like to mend that relationship, absolutely, it may be necessary to talk to them and address and say, hey, I kind of noticed this and this is what I'm perceiving. Can you, I mean, can we talk a little bit about that? So yeah, but essentially, even if it is like this person's targeted me, there still may not be a whole lot to be done about that. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I recently heard someone say that a and they were specifically talking about leadership, but I think this could probably be what's the word when you generalized. It could probably be generalized to the greater environment, but they said that one of the leader's greatest assets is their emotional energy value. When I heard that I was in a season where a lot of things felt like they had gone wrong, I had been reacting emotionally not outwardly necessarily, but inwardly and the amount that I was thinking about it and worrying about things and just hyper-focused on these situations, which made me more stressed and more irritable and probably more sensitive to other things going on in the environment. When I heard that, I thought, man, that's so true. I wish that I could become more emotionally stable, more of where I can experience something that isn't necessarily the best, but I could learn how to really stay calm and grounded throughout it instead of reacting emotionally to it.
Speaker 1:The question that I have is do you believe that's possible? Do you believe that it's possible for people to eliminate or positively change the way that they interact with stressful situations in their environment? I guess that's two different questions. Do you think that we can eliminate the way that we react and make it something completely different? I mean, that's the same question, or do you think that we could change the way that we interact with it? Maybe it's the two sides of the same coin.
Speaker 2:I think we can change the way that we react to stressful situations and stressful environments in terms of not reacting at all. I don't know if that would be possible, or if what ends up happening is just you stop recognizing the fact that you're reacting, if that makes any sense For situations.
Speaker 2:If you have a situation that you've got repeated stressors like the same kind of stressors over and, over and over again, sometimes you start to feel like you're numb to that. That can actually be one of the signs that you are burning out right Is when you just start going yeah, I'm not surprised by any of this anymore. I've heard it all, I've done it all. It shows no reaction. You have no reaction whatsoever. But you can change your reaction to stressful situations when you start recognizing I'm getting stressed out, changing what you're doing to counter that stress, and everybody's individual telltale signs of stress are a little bit different. It's important to recognize what those are so that you can change the way that you are reacting to stress. So for some people, they get very fidgety or they get very anxious, or they start to have like a tummy ache or a headache or whatever the case may be, and they start to say, okay, I'm stressed out Some people. So I'll give you an example for me.
Speaker 2:One of the ways that I know that I'm stressed out is I walk and I talk in my sleep, right, so I will know that something is going on, like I know, because the regular stuff, like I feel like I've got a lot of stuff to do and I've, you know, feel like I'm kind of being pulled in a bunch of different directions, and so I do the normal stuff the exercise, the meditation but if I see that I am like walking or talking in my sleep, actually not. If I see if the next morning my husband does an impersonation of me where he's like do you know what you did last night? You sat up and you started gesturing and I'm like, oh, all right.
Speaker 2:So I have to look at what's going on and I have to really reassess, kind of. You know what my stressors are and what it has looked like for me for the past couple of weeks, and I think I say that to say I think everybody has their own telltale signs, but you really have to kind of pay attention to them and know what they are for you so that when you see these things start happening whatever that list of things happens to be then you can act and say, okay, I need to change something in my environment, or I need to change something about my schedule, I need to change something that I've been doing so that I can go back to baseline. Does that answer the question?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. So is another. So the next question I have on top of that is so is mitigating stress or conquering stress I don't know the right, the phrase that you would prefer there but is it really about eliminating the things that are causing the stress, so identifying like where am I overworked, what do I need to say no to, what do I need to get off my plate, or is it, or what else, what helps people overcome the feelings of stress, bypass possible burnout and really get to a place where they are in a? Well, actually, what would you say is the goal, like, what is the opposite of not being stressed out all the time? What's the goal of what people are trying to accomplish?
Speaker 2:Yes, you can eliminate stress altogether, like there's just no way of doing that, because we're humans, our environments change all the time. We have to adapt to them and that just is there. There are going to be stressors if we're alive right. So there's that part of it. There is a part of conquering stress or mitigating stress, whichever one you want to use. There is a part of that that is about figuring out what exactly is on your plate and figuring out why everything's even on there to begin with, because there are some things that we end up taking responsibility for doing that we're not even sure why we're doing that and if it is even necessary.
Speaker 2:And so really looking at everything on our plate and saying what is this thing? Why is it here? What does it mean for my life? Does it need to be here? Like, is this really a top tier priority or is this something that can either be delegated somewhere or to someone, or that can be put on the back burner for now?
Speaker 2:And going through every single thing and figuring it out that way and getting rid of as many things as possible, and then, once you do have the things, that, okay, these are absolutely things that I have to keep on my plate, prioritizing those things, and really the goal is to get to a place where we're not feeling completely overwhelmed and like a chicken with its head cut off all the time, right, and feeling like we're able to enjoy some part of life as well, because I think we sometimes have a tendency to get caught up in our own like goals and stuff that we want to do and things we have to accomplish, and that's just the way it is right.
Speaker 2:We're trying to get things done and then sometimes we forget that there's also that part of being present for the experience and also enjoying some experiences and also just taking care of our own well-being. I think a lot of times we are like you hear people say I'll rest when I'm dead. Unfortunately, that's going to be much sooner if we're completely ignoring our well-being and not prioritizing it. So I think that is the point. But no, we'll never eliminate stress. It's always going to be there, which is a good thing, because the alternative is, if we're not, if we have no stress at all, we're probably not alive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean stress, as you said earlier. It has the positive side of it that motivates us and gets us to accomplish things and do things, but when it's in overdrive or more than what our body needs is when we start having all those negative effects. I'm thinking back to the kind of person that we were talking about at the very beginning, who likely just heard the part about not being overwhelmed and taking time to enjoy life and to relax and thinks to themselves what would I do, like what do you mean relax? Like what am I going to do when I would relax? And there's not yet in them a positive connection with, like relaxation and feeling recharged? And so what would you say to that person about what are some things they can think about or maybe refocus or reframe, or maybe some things they can do in quotes, that they can do while they're relaxing that isn't working and keeping them stressed, but can kind of be that bridge to get them to hopefully begin to learn to relax more?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I usually start with helping them find a restorative activity, so something they find engaging and interesting and restorative, as opposed to taking a person who's used to running 24 seven and telling them relax meaning do nothing for 30 minutes. So usually it's what do you find enjoyment in? And actually that's a really hard question for a lot of people to answer because they haven't really stopped to engage in anything that's interesting or restorative or replenishing or whatever. And if that's the case, when they're kind of like I don't even know what I like to do. Going back to when you were a kid, what made you laugh? What did you get enjoyment out of when you were a teenager, when you were in school, like what?
Speaker 2:Just at some point in your life, what was an activity that you liked to do or what was something that you were interested in, at least Because there can also be relaxing or restorative for somebody who is just interested in something, whatever that is. If it's gardening, you can read about gardening for a little bit. That switches your mind off of the intense. Go, go, go, be productive, do something at least to some other part of your brain that you're working, and then, when you switch to activities that are more of interest that can be engaging and restorative, then you work towards doing less and less, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that does make sense. I don't know if this would fit under that, but last week my husband and I went to Portugal for our anniversary.
Speaker 2:Great congratulations, that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was really fantastic. Now I will say I did not completely disconnect from work, but I set the boundary that I was not reachable and I only engaged with it if and when I wanted to. Like I would select check Slack or check email, but it never felt stressful or overwhelming. And so what I love to do is explore, like when I think of what is it that just gives me, like can really reset me other than getting a massage. It's not just like laying around reading books, which I do enjoy, but it's like I wanna be out, I wanna be active and I wanna learn new things and explore new things.
Speaker 1:And I don't think I realized it until I got back, but I realized how unstressed I was during those seven days that we were gone.
Speaker 1:And, as you were giving that answer, I thought it's very common that during the work week that I will tell myself like, oh, I can't go for a hike because I have other things to do, or I can't go XYZ mostly exploratory things and, from what you said earlier, actually being intentional about putting those things and allowing yourself to do it, because at the end of the day, I'd probably gonna fill that time with things that aren't gonna be that productive anyway, whereas if I would go do the hike and just be out in nature and do what I love, then I would come back more refreshed and more recharged, which allows me to actually be more efficient and more productive at the time that I am at work, and so it kind of gives me the better overall well-being and not just feeling like work is taking so much for me and then that leads to continuing to feel stressed and like I have so much to do that I can't go do the things that I enjoy. Am I kind of putting that together in a decent explanation?
Speaker 2:That's spot on. Yeah, absolutely, because you are engaging in something that lights you up. You're moving your body, which is the best thing. You're engaging your mind, but it's not related to work and it's allowing you, it's restorative and it's engaging, and that is an excellent form of what we're talking about in terms of the disconnect, in terms of the self-care. That's great.
Speaker 1:So there's a I mean there's a decent part of this. That is the mental battle. The mental battle of I don't have to work all of the time. It's okay for me to set boundaries or to do these things that I enjoy doing, or to not get a hundred things done on my to-do list on a day-to-day basis, like a mental shift of expectations of ourself 100%.
Speaker 2:And that's when you talk to people who have a really hard time with, like, relaxing and disconnecting because they feel like they should be doing something. A lot of times, when you kind of unpack that and dig a bit deeper, they equate not being quote unquote productive with laziness, right? So if they're not checking things off their to-do list, if they're being idle, so to speak, if they're not working, working, working, they equate it with laziness, they equate it with not being productive, they equate it with failure. And so, yeah, a lot of it is that mental block of kind of shifting the mindset.
Speaker 2:And we also live as a part of a. We have a hustle culture where it's kind of like you should be working, you just have to work hard, and you can. The sky's the limit as long as you're working hard. And so the flip side of that is if you're not working hard every second, then you're failing or you're lazy or you are filled with shortcomings, which just isn't the case. It's so important. The relaxation part of it is just as important as the rest of it. It's just like with athletes their training is important, but the, the taking care of themselves and the recovery part of it is does it just as important as the training and pushing hard. And you know, you know, hitting the ground running, oh that's super important. But the recovery is just as important and they'll tell you that. The professional athletes will tell you that.
Speaker 1:Very true, that's very true. So what about you personally? What are the things that you do on a daily basis or weekly basis, or whatever, to keep your stress under control, to find the enjoyment of the things that you do in life and the things that we've talked about today? What are the what's your personal routine?
Speaker 2:For me, boundaries. Boundaries are super, super important for me. Just making sure that I keep them in place, because I'm often asked to do a lot of things and my job is to help people and I really want to do that. That's why I started doing this in the first place. That's why, you know, I became a psychologist. But knowing that I have to have those protective factors in place for myself so that I can do what I need to be doing, so that's huge for me.
Speaker 2:I schedule my downtime and I schedule stuff that I so that I can't put it in my calendar because empty space. The calendar always looks good to me. I'm like fantastic, I can fit these things into here. And so I have to always be mindful of the fact that I could, but I shouldn't fit things in there. So I put in like in my schedule you'll see downtime, or you'll see, you know, morning run, or you'll see spinning, or you'll see like whatever class I have. I make sure that I schedule activities I'm super interested in. So I my background is actually my undergrads in theater, so I have like a creative background and so I still have a great love for like theater and dance and all those things, and so I enroll in classes that are related to that so that I can work a different part of my brain and I can completely disconnect from work. So that's super important for me too, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I have practiced and have become pretty good at saying no and it. It's the hardest thing sometimes for us to say, because we really want to help and we really want to do something, but we just can't. And so I'm really good was just saying you know, I'm so sorry, that sounds awesome, but I just don't have the ability to give that thing the attention that it deserves right now. So I either say no period, or I say no, but let's circle back to this next quarter, next year, like, whatever the case may be. What else? Sleep super important for me. I used to feel like I used to be able to function without sleep, quite frankly, and now I can't do it.
Speaker 2:Not so much? Not at all. So I just I make sure that I have sleep opportunity and I make sure that I am, you know, making sure I'm in bed. So I think everybody knows now, since I've enforced my boundaries for such a long time, everybody knows that you ask me to do some kind of activity that starts like at nine o'clock or later pm. I'm afraid I'm going to have to sit this one out.
Speaker 2:So the answer is no. Yeah, I'm so sorry I can't do that. It's like T minus 45 minutes to bedtime. So, no, I won't be joining you. So I do that sort of thing. I have.
Speaker 2:I have an amazing network of support that I'm just so grateful for. Just I don't even I feel I've done nothing to deserve them, but they're there. So I'm just so grateful and just, yeah, lots of, lots of gratitude over over that about having such a strong network of people that are always there for me and would do absolutely anything for me. I think that's it Also gratitude, just being grateful for like the small things and knowing that I have a great deal to be grateful for, and I think that helps too in terms of looking at situations.
Speaker 2:Oh, and the last thing I'll say I have two phones, which has been I will recommend it like really always. I have a business phone and I have a personal phone and no contact that is not family or really close friends gets the personal number, and that has been really helpful because I can shut off work when I need to, because if your business texts and emails are coming in on your phone, it's human nature. We're going to take a sneak peek, check it just to, just to make sure nothing has fallen apart in these two hours that we've been connected.
Speaker 1:Even though everyone's like eating dinner and sleeping, it could have all gone to hell. It's so true. It's so true. You're the second person I've heard say this. I heard someone else talk about. I was listening to a podcast where someone recommended this two days ago, so now I'm like maybe this is a thing that I should look into. I'm hearing this for a reason that's fascinating.
Speaker 2:I highly recommend it. It's a I mean, you have two devices to keep track of, sure, but it's so nice when you're not working to be able to leave that work phone somewhere. It doesn't matter where, just leave it, just leave side of the road. Yes, right.
Speaker 1:I don't need it anymore. That's awesome. Well, Dr Marsha Brown, where can our listeners find out more about you and what you do?
Speaker 2:I can go to my website. It is DrMarshaBrowncom. It's D-R-M-A-R-S-H-A-B-R-O-W-Ncom.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. We'll include that in the show notes as well, so people can go and find more about you. I loved our conversation. Thank you so much for coming on so fun, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:It was. I know that the listeners are going to have a lot of great takeaways from this, and this is just some things everyone can benefit from. No one's perfect at dealing with and mitigating their stress, and we can always use a refresher on what really matters most in life, so I appreciate the work that you're doing and sharing some of these golden nuggets with our podcast listeners today.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:I love getting these refreshers on how to better handle the stress in our environments, because even if we just look at this from a very physiological level, we know that chronic stress is likely actually the number one source of disease and early onset death in people across especially the western states, but maybe even across the entire western countries, but maybe even across the entire world. Stress leads to so many health complications, and not just even with, you know, possibly getting our hormones out of whack or our blood sugar and things like that, but also stress is looking like it is linked to dementia, early onset dementia, alzheimer's disease, perhaps even highly related to atherosclerosis, cardiovascular disease, things like that, and plus it just sucks right Like walking around frazzled all the time isn't the best, and that's not even to mention the negative impact that chronic stress can have on our relationships. Right, I know that when I'm stressed out, I am not the mom of the year or the wife of the century by any stretch of the imagination, and so it's incredibly important that we focus on mitigating our stress and focusing on how to become more present as wives, husbands, moms, dads, friends, workers, coworkers, leaders. Whatever position that we have in life, it can benefit from the things that we learned today. Here are my three key takeaways.
Speaker 1:The first question is one that deserves reflection what people or activities give you energy and what people or activities take away your energy? Taking some time to reflect on that and really get a better understanding of yourself can help you to avoid future stress and future burnout, because we can then begin to learn hey, when I do these things, it actually gives me a ton of life and excitement and energy, but when I do these other things, I feel completely drained and irritable and angry. Then put ourselves in situations and ask for projects and do more things that lead us to the life giving activities, not the draining activities. My second key takeaway is kind of in line with that, which is just the question of what do you find enjoyment in? Even apart and separate from work or household chores or things like that. If all of that was taken away, if you didn't have to work, if you didn't have to clean the house, if you didn't have these other expectations that were put on you, what would you find enjoyment in? What would you do? I would explore 100%. I would run, work out, hike I love doing those things and I would travel, I would explore, I would go learn new things and probably spend way more time with friends and going out and having fun like trying new restaurants, things like that. I love those things. What is it for you?
Speaker 1:And then my third key takeaway is actually a phrase that Dr Brown said of sleep opportunity. Y'all know how much I love sleep and talking about sleep and encouraging you to get more sleep, the sleep opportunity in your life, like how much opportunity are you actually giving yourself to sleep and to rest and to recover every single night? I intentionally set nine hours aside every single night that I will be either preparing for bed or in bed, and that is probably the most non-negotiable aspect of my calendar. I will get my sleep Because I know when I sleep I am refreshed, I can better mentally focus, I can have better judgment, even going into emotional situations, and even though I don't do any of those things perfectly, I can only imagine that if I were sleep deprived, how much worse it would be on days when it's already hard enough. So set yourself up for success as much as you can by ensuring that you are giving yourself as much sleep opportunity as possible.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please share it with a friend or a family member who you believe could benefit from it, and we would love for you to give an honest review wherever you listen to podcasts. Hopefully it's five stars, but we always love to hear from you regardless. Leaving reviews is a great way to help the podcast grow and to help it reach even more people, so I would be forever grateful if you would leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts, especially on Apple or on Spotify. Would be absolutely awesome. Until next week, stay strong.