Dr. Joe Beam - Are Traditional Values the ONLY Solution to Moral Decay?

Are you troubled by the direction of our culture? Witnessing the erosion of traditional values and what feels like an increase in moral decay and societal problems? Dr. Joe Beam and Kimberly Beam Holmes offer a thought-provoking, and at times controversial, conversation exploring these pressing concerns.

They delve into:
The impact of childhood trauma on our health
The dangers of unchecked emotions
The loss of critical thinking & open debate
Social media's influence on our values
The impact of technology on human connection
Changing social norms around gender and sexuality

This isn't just about identifying what's wrong. Dr. Beam shares wisdom on how we can stand for positive social change, respect others even when we disagree, and create a better world.  He offers a call to action, grounded in the belief that our choices matter.

If you're ready for a deep dive into the issues shaping our society, and a discussion of potential solutions, this video is for you!


Your Host: Kimberly Beam Holmes, Expert in Self-Improvement and Relationships


Kimberly Beam Holmes has applied her master's degree in psychology for over ten years, acting as the CEO of Marriage Helper & CEO and Creator of PIES University, being a wife and mother herself, and researching how attraction affects relationships. Her videos, podcasts, and following reach over 200,000 people a month who are making changes and becoming the best they can be.


Website: www.kimberlybeamholmes.com


Thanks for listening!


Connect on Instagram: @kimberlybeamholmes


Be sure to SUBSCRIBE to the podcast and leave a comment!

I'm Dr. Kimberly Beam Holmes. After a decade transforming marriages at Marriage Helper, I've realized that the greatest tragedy isn't a failed relationship; it's the person who stays stuck and never experiences the fullness of all God intended.

The Way You Show Up is for the high-achiever who is tired of "fine."

We're dismantling the average life to build an exceptional one—using the science of the PIES: Physical, Intellectual, Emotional, and Spiritual health.

If you want to save your marriage, go to Marriage Helper. If you want to master yourself and lead your legacy, stay here.

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Transcript

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Cultural Shifts Over Time

Speaker 1 0:00

Warning this episode may be a little controversial , but I believe that it's a true and real and good and honest conversation that needs to occur and that we probably need to have more of . In today's episode , I'm sitting down with Dr Joe Beam , who is also my dad . Dr Joe Beam has his PhD in social sciences from the University of Sydney , and that doesn't really matter for today's conversation . What really matters is that he , I believe and I know I'm a biased person , but he's a very wise person who has experienced a lot in life and has seen a lot of things change in our culture . In today's episode , I'm sitting down with him and asking him about the changes that he has seen over the decades . I mean from him remembering when segregation was still happening , to the wars that have happened to , I mean , all the way from the 60s to today . We're getting his viewpoint on what has changed in culture and some commentary from him on what he foresees is going to be happening in the future and some warnings about how he's very concerned about the future of our generation , and a lot of that concern stems from the fact that we aren't having conversations like this on a wider scope . In fact , typically when people have conversations like this , there's a lot of anger , there's a lot of controversy , there's a lot of just splitting down the middle and not truly listening to people who are on the other side , and that is one of the things that I hope to overcome in not just this podcast specifically , but the whole .

Speaker 1 1:43

It Starts with Attraction show . I love having on guests who may not have the same belief system that I do , but understanding how they see the world and then taking the golden nuggets of wisdom from the things that they share , finding the common ground and then relating it back to truth . That's one of the things I love to do and it's part of our spiritual area of attraction . So in today's episode , we're going to touch on physical , intellectual , emotional and spiritual parts of culture and how we need to be aware of how each of those things have changed over the decades and warnings for how they may change in the future if we're not careful . Without further ado , let's dive in to today's episode . Dad , thanks for joining me today .

Speaker 2 2:29

Ah , Kimberly , always good to be with you .

Speaker 1 2:31

Yes , and in thinking about this podcast , the goal of this podcast is to help people become the best that they can physical , intellectually , emotionally , spiritually as you know the pies I've heard of that , you've heard of it . Yeah .

Speaker 2 2:46

Wow , 20 or 30 years ago yeah .

Speaker 1 2:48

Yes , and there's several different areas of life that these aspects interact with in our lives , and one of them is culture and how culture can shape us and affect how attractive , if you want to say it that way , or how we are , how we show up physically , intellectually , emotionally and spiritually . And so I would love to discuss what are some shifts that you have seen either in your life because you , I mean , you've been through a wealth of situations you remember when there was segregation .

Speaker 2 3:26

Yeah , that's a nice way of saying you're really old Dad .

Speaker 1 3:28

No , you are full of wisdom and discernment .

Speaker 2 3:31

Right .

Speaker 1 3:32

But there's so many other cultures that value the wisdom of those that are older , and our culture doesn't do as good of a job at that .

Speaker 2 3:41

I don't think so .

Speaker 1 3:41

No , I don't think so . So I would love to hear , like what shifts have you seen in culture as you've gone through the years , and what are the shifts that you foresee coming in culture that you think that we should be aware of ?

Speaker 2 3:57

Actually , I can speak to that in each of the P-I-E-S , but I think I would start with the emotional . Okay .

Speaker 2 4:04

So when I was younger , the culture of America now obviously I wasn't traveling the world at six years old , but when I was younger , the culture of America was that you took care of people , you lived up to responsibility and even if your emotions were I want to go this , I want to do that , you would live up to your responsibility instead . And so if your parents were getting older and you could care for them , they moved into your house . If you were married and you were going to have some kind of discord or troubles , you figured out how to fix it , because it was like I have responsibility to you , you to me . We have responsibilities to our children , to our neighbors , to our relatives , and therefore it's not all about me , it's about what I need to do . That's the right thing to do for people , and if my emotions go against that , I will push my emotions down because my responsibility is more important .

Speaker 2 4:54

That began to change back in the 1960s Now a long time before you were born . I'm going to begin to be more about freedom , and freedom I'm all for I mean , our whole country stands for freedom but it was more than just freedom in the sense of citizenship and those kinds of things . But it became freedom to do whatever I want to do and you don't have any right to judge me which got even worse in the 70s and 80s . And so the point now where that even marriage counselors tell people , oh , you don't need to fix this marriage , yeah , you're better off if you just split up and oh , don't think about the children , they'll be fine , whereas you and I both know what was that thing we were talking about just a minute ago , the ACE .

Speaker 1 5:35

ACEs . Yeah , adverse childhood experiences scale .

Speaker 2 5:38

And what does it indicate ?

Speaker 1 5:40

It's about 11 or 12 questions that indicate the level of trauma that a child went through that is going to negatively , adversely affect them as they get older into life .

Speaker 2 5:52

And one of the masks about if a parent died before they turned 18 years old or was incarcerated , that's another one , or if your mother and father divorced before you were 18 years old and these are seen as traumatic events that will affect not just the way you think , feel , it'll actually affect your health . And so very high scores , like if you were to get a nine and I realize most people don't know what those scores mean right now , but let's just understand that nine would be very high and if you have 11 questions each one that you say yes to gets one point so and that would be extremely high Then they indicate that if you have a score that high which is kind of rare that you are almost certainly going to be having great physical problems .

Speaker 1 6:35

Yeah , you're right , I had forgotten about that till you said it . But yes , there's a much higher just overall all cause mortality rate , but especially cardiovascular disease is way more prevalent the higher your ACEs score is , because of stress , the stress that the body took on during that time , that it remembers , in a way .

Speaker 2 6:55

And so what I was reading ? I was just looking at some of that research yesterday . A score of above four indicates there's a great likelihood that you're going to have physical problems because of the stress that you endured in childhood . And if you get up to six , seven , eight , even to nine , it's like it's a given You're going to be having all kinds of problems in various ways , including physically . And so we see that even the research says no , there still should be some responsibility . Yeah , that if you bring children onto this planet , for example , and then you divorce , you will negatively and you'll have an adverse reaction to the child that the child may pay for years later , not just in terms of them being more likely to divorce themselves , more likely to not trust that some people are going to stay there for them , but also in terms of their physical health . Yeah .

Speaker 2 7:46

And so that's emotional . I've seen that change from a culture of , yes , what I want is important , but doing what's right is more important , to now it's all about me and whatever makes me happy is none of your business and if you don't like it , you can lump it . As a matter of fact , you actually should now endorse and agree with and encourage me to be irresponsible if my emotions are leading me in some other direction and if you don't back my emotions , my personalized , to some degree selfish emotions , then you're the bad guy . Now , all the way from it's bad to not do the right thing , even when your emotions are saying you want to do something else , all the way to flip to the other side of where it's bad If you think I don't have the right to do whatever I want to do whenever I want to do it , and who cares who ? It hurts ? It's all about me . It's a . It's a worship of self .

Impact of the 60s Cultural Revolution

Speaker 1 8:45

Why do you think the change began to happen in the 60s ?

Speaker 2 8:49

Well , in the 60s , we were coming out of Vietnam . Actually , we were getting in Vietnam . I say differently . We started in the late 50s in the Vietnam and so we were getting . It was the first war that was on TV , and so we were getting pictures of battles and things like that on our evening news . It was in black and white to begin with , but we were seeing that , and then we'd see pictures or photos or even movies of the gaskets being taken off the airplanes with the American flags draped over them , and and then we'd learn about some of the terrible things that they did over there not just our guys , who , some of which did terrible things , but the terrible things that were being done by the Vietnamese people , and folks just generally got to the point of thinking what are we doing ?

Speaker 2 9:34

It's an unpopular , unhappy war . We need to rebel and therefore our rebellion is going to be we're going to tune in and drop out . It's not that tune it . It was not the phrase I can't remember exactly what it was , but back in the 60s which basically said I'm going , oh , I'm going to drop it in and then tune out , which means I'm going to take the drugs where I don't have to , like LSD , those kinds of things and and so it began changing in the 60s because people did not like the reality we had and , admittedly , our government was lying to us . We know that now , and so a lot of disillusionment . But it moved from okay , these people are doing wrong , let's take it to look whatever I think should be the right thing . And then , as we went into the 70s , it got stronger doing that .

Speaker 1 10:24

So that's when the hippie movement in the 60s actually in the late mid to late 60s , and it was just paired with Vietnam , the rebellion .

Speaker 2 10:34

And the rebellious songs , like a hand heat at a song about going up country , which was all about being in Vietnam , and there were other songs , protest songs , about Vietnam . Now , I'm not trying to encourage Vietnam and if anybody here is watching or listening to us who served in Vietnam or had somebody you love who served in Vietnam , our folks did the best they could . I am very much in support of our troops , not so much in support of some of the political leaders that made decisions back in those days , but , yeah , the world began to change . It's like they're going to get me killed . Why should I die for them ? Who cares about this thing ? They're calling responsibility . I've got to be me , and they even . Who was it ? Was it Paul Anka that wrote that song ? Somebody , I've got to be me .

Speaker 1 11:23

Hmm , where did free love fit into this ?

Speaker 2 11:26

Well , when you start throwing off the boundaries , once you cross a boundary , crossing other boundaries becomes very easy . We know that , for example , when we deal with marriages where infidelity is second place , that a person who's committing infidelity will do some sexual acts with that partner that they never did with their spouse . And the spouse , if they find out about it , it's like , boy , he did that with her or she did that with him , never did it with me . Why are they doing that ? Because once you cross that boundary , all the boundaries begin to fall . And so , whenever crossing the boundaries burning their draft cards for the guys , burning their reserves for the girls , not wanting to be responsible I'm going to change the way I dress . I'm going to change the way I act . I'm going to let you know that I'm not part of your society . And that was when it started . Now , am I blaming those folks for where we are today ? No , no , I'm not blaming anybody . I'm just saying it seems to me that's where the change began .

Speaker 1 12:23

What about the good things that happened from that time , like the ending of segregation ? I mean how ? Because what was the timeline of those ?

Speaker 2 12:31

Well , the first African Americans that went to school with me were in high school , when I was in grammar school . For example , people who were had darker skin tones than mine could work in our kitchens , they could work in our halls , but they couldn't sit in our classrooms and there was a lot of animosity .

Speaker 2 12:52

And each side had terrible words . They would call the other white people , called black people one thing , black people call white people another thing , and there was a lot of animosity . So when the integration first started , when it first began to be legal a lot of animosity , people being killed , all those kinds of things . When I was a student in high school this is how long ago this was students drove the school buses . So I drove a school bus , my 11th and 12th grade of high school , and three African American ladies rode my bus and they would not speak to me . I tried my best to be friendly , to be warm , and I'm sure it's because they were afraid afraid of me , protecting themselves as best they could be . So it really was bad , very bad , but it's still bad . It's a lot better than it was . The man who was affecting the most change was Martin Luther King Jr Now , not a perfect man by any means , but a really good man , in my opinion , who was accomplishing a great deal of good , and his whole mantra was nonviolent disobedience .

Speaker 2 14:01

We're going to do civil disobedience , so the government has to change the laws . If this restaurant says blacks can't eat here , we're going to go sit there to counter , but we're never going to be violent , because violence just breeds more violence . Whoever it was that was involved in killing him now I know that one man was put in prison for it , but it seems like maybe it was broader , maybe I don't know what they were thinking . Yes , he's for integration , but he's preaching nonviolence .

Speaker 2 14:32

After he died , the great influence he had began to fade , and look how many things turned to violence , like the Watts riots , for example , even some of the riots that we see today . This somehow seemed to be racially divided and a lot of violence out there , from blacks toward blacks , whites toward blacks , blacks toward whites , I mean . And not just that , but now the other ethnicities are getting involved , the Asians , for example , and the Latinos , and so forth and so on . And so you look at that and go it's become a world where we have better rules for integration , but a much more violent world than it was .

Speaker 1 15:18

What do you think could change it ?

Speaker 2 15:21

If this thing called love you know it's also part of the hippie movement , as you call it if you missed the other free love movement of the 60s , it was really about love . If you're going to San Francisco , wear some flowers in your hair . It was all about being kind and nice and helping people out . And if ever we could get back to that again , which basically comes down to rather than following my base or emotions , which are all about me allowing myself to be more influenced by my higher emotions , which has to do with helping people who need help , caring for people who can't care for themselves , giving to people who don't have enough all those kinds of things . And listening to people , even when I don't think I will agree with anything that they say . Back when Reagan was president , were you alive when Reagan was president ? I think ?

Speaker 1 16:12

that was the year I was born . Okay , all right .

Speaker 2 16:16

Back when he and Tipple Neal Tipple Neal , a very strong leader in the Democratic Party , reagan in the Republican Party , at odds with each other on many issues would often meet in the evening and have a cocktail and just visit with each other . Just enjoyed each other's company . Therefore , at least you were listening to the other side and in that kind of a situation you can eventually work things out . Hopefully . Who's listening to whom now ? Nobody .

Speaker 1 16:42

No , nobody . It's so divided . Rob and I were talking about this last night . He was talking about some study that was done . I guess there were four groups of people and so there was a , and they were split into two different groups of Democrats and two different groups of Republicans . So one group of Democrats and one group of Republicans took this survey of their beliefs on certain political issues . So that was their control group . Then the other groups were told to think about being the other . So the Democrats , they said think that you are a Republican , now , fill this out . And then same with Republicans think that you're . And so this was probably done several years ago too . But as we were talking about it , rob said and it was the Republicans actually closely mirrored when they were told to think of how liberals think . But when the Democrats were asked to , those compared to the Republican control group was way off . So as we were talking about this , I said , okay , well , here's the thing . Like some people may hear that and say see the other Republicans are better people .

Speaker 1 17:56

Exactly , or well , that's because Democrats are stupid . I'm not saying that .

Speaker 2 18:00

No , no , no , but people could use that . That's what people right To make those interpretations .

Speaker 1 18:04

So the first words out of my mouth were well , it's not because Democrats aren't smart . Exactly that's not why . So why is it different ? Or was it different back then ? It was probably five or 10 years ago at this point . Why could it have been different ? And then the question I asked to him was has there ever been a time where the Democrats have felt like their voice was silenced and we kind of talked about like Lyndon B Johnson , like we went there and kind of talked about some different things , but and I don't know that we came to a conclusion , but my I went to are they feeling like they weren't heard , and so it's hard for them to understand the other side , because they just want to be heard right now or then when it happened . And of course I don't know the answer , but I think that the split in politics currently , and as we've seen it over the past several years , is scary .

Speaker 2 18:56

Mm-hmm , because it filters down to every aspect of our society .

Speaker 1 19:00

Absolutely . And and there , how do we get to the place where we can see the other person's perspective and understand it , even when we don't agree with it ?

Speaker 2 19:11

Yeah , we teach people all the time to respect another person is to give them value , mm-hmm , that you're valuable because you are a human being and therefore I will listen to what you say . I'll try to understand it . I'm not going to be debating it , throwing it back at you . I'm really going to try to understand what you say . Now I'll accept the fact that you think , feel or believe that way . I won't endorse it if I don't agree with it . I certainly want to encourage it if I don't agree with it . But at least you feel heard . And so that's when we get into the eye the intellectual

Challenges in Intellectual Thought and Media

Speaker 2 19:43

of the past .

Speaker 2 19:43

Kimberly , when I was younger , the people who really wanted to decide to change for the better were the ones saying let's talk about everything , let's explore new ideas , let's bring speakers into college campuses who can challenge us by presenting things we've never thought about before . We may not change one out of because of what they say , but it's going to teach us how to think , how to process , how to reason , how to deduce those kinds of things . And it was the conservative people when I was in college who were doing everything they could to keep the liberal , as they would phrase it , the liberal people from coming on campus and giving their views . Now that's flipped . Just the opposite .

Speaker 2 20:26

And it's the people who are considered to be the quote liberal people , end quote who are now protesting and demanding that the ones with the conservative views not be able to come on their campus . And so we were trying to encourage free thought not freedom from thought , not freedom from law , not freedom from reasoning . But let's keep exploring , and that's how our scientists were making some of the most amazing discoveries , because science was always based on . That's what appears to be true right now , but maybe it's different . Maybe there's something we haven't seen , maybe there's some action that hasn't taken place , and so great things like penicillin being discovered from mold on bread of all places , and the polio vaccine that really changed the world when I was the young man the smallpox vaccine , et cetera , et cetera .

Speaker 2 21:16

Now I know we're still making inventions like that now , but we don't I say we , many places in America no longer encourage people to think freely and widely . Our intellect has changed to . This is what's right , and if anybody says anything different than that , they're a heretic of some side . So either on the liberal side , conservative side . I miss the days when I could sit with a friend and we had such varying views that we could discuss all evening and never get mad . Maybe not find a point of agreement , maybe you wound up finding five or six points of agreement , but both of us learning and thinking . Does that still exist in our world ? Yes , but not like it did , and certainly not on some of the college campuses where it should be .

Speaker 1 22:12

Yeah , I'm thinking about when I went to college , and I went to a Christian college , but , as you know , Since I help pay a little .

Speaker 1 22:24

The listeners might not know . So I went to a Christian college but in several ways it was one of the first times that my Christian worldview ironically at a Christian campus was exposed to ideas I hadn't heard like growing up in the church , like why should we actually trust the Bible ? That's a good question . It is a good question . Never learned about that in Sunday school , and so me and many of my peers , for the first time we're hearing these other , the other side of it .

Speaker 2 22:55

Here's the question were they presenting a balanced view of both sides or not ?

Speaker 1 23:00

No , but before we get to that part , there was the need because we didn't have that , and it was the first time . For a lot of people it was difficult , and for me , for a period of time , it was difficult to balance , but this is what I've been taught my whole life growing up . But now this is what I'm hearing , but it was kept from me . What do I actually believe ? So I believe it's a further testament to the need to understand other people's perspectives and worldview so that you have a reason for why you believe what you believe .

Speaker 1 23:35

Now , in that specific situation , there was a particular teacher who did a very poor well , he did a very good job at ripping the Bible apart and did a very poor job at helping understand why it's still believable , why it's still true and inerrant , even with all of the known issues that might be with it . So , anyway , so , and I had friends leave , entering into Bible college as Bible majors and leaving as atheists and sometimes still Bible majors that are now atheists . And you see , and those are the people who are going to go I don't know , I don't know what they're going to do , but they I don't even know where I'm going with that , if I'm hearing what you're saying , it wasn't just exposing to new thoughts , it was not giving a balanced view of opposing thoughts , which would make all the difference in the world .

Speaker 2 24:31

Okay , here are the reasons that you would think this , but here are the reasons you would also think this . Let's start evaluating each of these and see what they could come to , what makes sense , etc .

Speaker 1 24:44

Because that's what we do in research , absolutely . And you also have to look at the results that come back inconclusive , or the ones that come back against the hypothesis where the null is true and you have to ask yourself why ? And then go through and logically be into deduce but we don't , but we don't do that on a large scale , and if the researcher spins that , then they are anathema to other researchers .

Speaker 2 25:11

They're worse than plagiarists in the sense that what they have done is they've taken data that indicated one thing and spun it to make it appear to say something totally different as to what they wanted it to say Right , well , that's the intention of the peer review process , so that things like that don't happen . Or get caught when they do .

Speaker 1 25:31

Or to get caught when they do , because for I mean , for the most part research takes , it doesn't take lightly the fact that this is a type of truth that we are putting out in the world . It needs to be reliable and valid .

Speaker 2 25:49

And a good research you'll actually have a section about . Here are the flaws in my research . Right here are the weaknesses in my research .

Speaker 1 25:54

Right , you have to critically think about your own beliefs , exactly .

Speaker 2 25:58

And so intellectual . The changes I have seen has to do with people thinking less and being programmed more , and I'm talking about across the board , no matter what their educational level , might be their PhDs just as programmed as their people who never finished the first grade and programmed to believe what they believe .

Speaker 1 26:21

By what ? What's programming ?

Speaker 2 26:24

About whoever or whatever is important to them , has a tremendous influence over what they believe , and then that determines their value system . And so when we look at that , you say , well , wasn't all of these things , dr Beam ? Don't you think that all of those things were still problems back when you were young ? No , but they're more intense now .

Speaker 1 26:44

You think it's because of media and social media .

Speaker 2 26:47

Definitely social media , without a doubt , and media as well . I think we've come to learn that the fair and balanced reporting of Walter Cronkite on the Vietnam War on CBS Evening News back in the 1950s and 60s we trusted him . He was like one of the most trusted men in America because he would give both sides and first he'd just present the news without comment and then he'd say , ok , let me give you my comments and he would give the weaknesses and strengths of that . And so America trusted him . It's like first you gave the news without bias , now you're giving us what you think that means and letting us know there's two sides to it .

Speaker 2 27:28

That stopped a long time ago and I know from experience , having been interviewed occasionally or recording to be aired on television , that based on the bias of the person who's doing the interviewing and the bias of the editor . I've actually watched myself on television say things I did not believe , because they cut and splice things in such a way , not like they cut my picture to another picture , but they play a phrase for me , then they cut over and say something and then play another phrase for me and the conclusion was good , great . Does he really believe that ? And I'm looking at it going no , he doesn't believe that you have mistreated me .

Speaker 2 28:10

You have splanted it to say what you wanted to say . And then , when you get to social media , oh my goodness , everybody , if they have any access to the internet at all , can say anything they want to say . And it's just fascinating that the satire people will put out there just because they know people will believe it . Oh , something about this country music singer won't sing at that country music club because of this great difference they have about God or about politics or about whatever , and none of it's true . And people pick up from that and all of a sudden you see it all over the internet everywhere that these two guys are fighting with each other . When it was all made up by somebody who just posted it on the internet and people who was on the internet , it must be true . And man , it's the greatest disseminator of misinformation , bias and outright hatred that's occurred in my lifetime . And when this AI stuff gets going , I don't know what's going to happen .

Speaker 2 29:16

I fear it's going to get worse .

Speaker 1 29:18

I know I just saw one of my friends is kind of like a pioneer in AI information and he was sharing a couple of weeks ago . Now that the video part is coming and it's , you will not know what's real and what's not . I believe , that and it's terrifying . It's weird , I don't . I don't like it , but I've always been a late adopter to all technology . I wish we didn't have social media .

Speaker 2 29:43

You should call those bloodites .

Speaker 1 29:45

That's probably me . I would rather not have Wi-Fi , not have social media , definitely not have AI , because I it takes the human element out of care . Actually , there's a lot of things out there that are therapy type services , like subscription services , and one of the concerns is that they're going to start using AI for the counseling or coaching , which actually is the worst thing that can happen for an individual , Although people will say , like the people , those companies will say that the end client's going to feel taken care of . But you're the whole point of like coaching , counseling . If we go back to Carl Rogers , who is the pioneer in that , really in the talk therapy area , it was so that a person can feel that they're cared for by another human .

Speaker 2 30:32

Positive human regard yeah .

Speaker 1 30:35

And now we're going to turn that into a machine for what ? For profit margins , surely , like that has to be the reason .

Speaker 2 30:44

Well , if you put all that together , the intellectual changes that I've seen , where now is ? People don't strive as much to be honest Now some people do . I'm not trying to condemn the whole world , but many more people no longer striving for honesty . Intellectually , they want to prove what they want it to be , period . And then emotionally , it's like my emotions , what I feel is more important than anything else , including responsibility , your needs , your wants . And then spiritually , with many , even those who are professing or religion of a particular kind , whether they're Muslim or Buddhist or Jewish or Christian I want to say my Christians , because that's the one I'm familiar with .

Speaker 2 31:21

God has changed from this is the God of the Bible . Look what he's like to this is what God's like , and what he's like is this being I've developed up here , that I like and that's God . So I see phrases that I think are true , such things as this If your God is happy with everything you want to do , your God is you . And I think that's happened , that people have made themselves their gods While still claiming they believe in a God or the God . But the a God or the God that they believe in is not the one that we've been presented . It has righteousness and morality and good and what must be done and true love , and all those things changed over to no .

Speaker 2 32:08

God is the one who endorses everything I think , everything I want to do and then physically , people continue to change , obviously people living a little bit longer because of medicine and things like that . But in this room I'm going to snuck a really old foggy . The reason that men went to strip clubs back in the 50s and 60s now it was too young to go to a strip club in the 50s , so I wasn't me , but the men that went , reason being they went there was because men have always been intrigued by female bodies and the strippers would carefully and in sexual ways , through dance and movement , reveal more and more of their body . And the more they revealed , the more tips they got , the more money they made and all those kinds of things . And everybody understood that back then . Men are attracted to female bodies .

Speaker 2 33:00

Now , if a girl is wearing hardly anything and the guy looks at her twice because she's revealed so much of her body , he's the bad guy . It's like how dare you look at her like that ? It's been a principle of humankind back to Adam and Eve . It's why men still go to strip clubs , although I don't think they have much reason to go now . Go downtown Nashville when they're having bachelorette parties on a Saturday night and you'll see more skin than anything you can imagine , and it's like don't you dare look at me , I've already used some kind of a sexist pig . So , even physically , the way we dress ourselves , the way we perform I'm not perform , I'm looking for Lord the way we carry ourselves , all those kinds of things change from humility , from confidence , which is always good . To look at me , look at me , how dare you look at me ? And so I've seen changes in all of the paths , all the way through .

Speaker 1 34:05

I think there's a difference that needs to be pointed out here too . There's a difference in what you're saying of people dressing modestly versus if people dress a certain way , then , and if a man were to make a move or anything like that that the woman asked for it ?

Speaker 2 34:25

No , I'm not saying that , which is not what you're saying . No , no , no , no .

Speaker 1 34:27

I'm talking about just noticing , just looking For sure , I just want to make sure I can already see listeners and saying like , wait a minute . He just said but it's not what you're saying .

Speaker 2 34:36

No , no , not at all , Not at all .

Navigating Moral Responsibility and True Love

Speaker 2 34:39

I remember once trying to have a teenage girl deal with the sexual abuse that had occurred to her , to her from her stepfather when she was like 15 . And she was saying well , it was all my fault . I walked through the living room wearing a bikini , so I asked for it and I stopped right there and I said who is programming you ? Look , was that the smartest thing to do ? Well , that guy obviously not , but you weren't asking for it . And if some man hurts you , molests you , makes moves on you , whatever , then you have every right to be offended and to tell him to get lost and go away . So I wasn't so . Thank you for clarifying that . I'm just talking about the fact that people can dress however they want now and then , if anybody even looks at them , right you're the bad guy .

Speaker 1 35:22

There's no personal responsibility , even for how we show it .

Speaker 2 35:24

There you go Physically . I'm glad you straighten that out . Yeah , I could see the letters coming out .

Speaker 1 35:30

Well , I'm sure you remember when I was growing up you had to approve my swimsuits up until , pretty much , I got married .

Speaker 2 35:40

Yeah , and I transferred that to Rob .

Speaker 1 35:44

I guess , although one of the , I don't know . We went to the Philippines and Korea one time and there was a picture of me in a swimsuit and you commented and you were like I don't remember your comment , but you were not approving of my swimsuit as a married woman on a vacation with my husband .

Speaker 2 36:01

I think fathers always feel very protective of their daughters . Well , at least they should .

Speaker 1 36:06

And that was it . Because I would say , like my shorts had to be a certain length , and you know all of the things . And when I would get frustrated about it , you would say I'm so sorry that those other girls don't have dads who love them as much as I love you , it's 100% what she . And now I feel it because when Eliana your daughter .

Speaker 1 36:26

Yeah , exactly so . I mean she's . She's definitely in a phase of wearing very baggy clothes right now , but I can only imagine as she gets older and she has the most beautiful legs , like long , slender , and I'm like it's going to be hard for her to find long shorts because she has such long legs . But I can already see it when she's 16 . I'm going to be like better cover those things up .

Speaker 2 36:47

Yep , yep . I'm never justifying anything anyone does to a woman at all , period . No , if that's bad . No , never , never . But to dress provocatively and then call me a name because I turn and look at you , it's just not rational .

Speaker 1 37:05

Yeah , it's , but it's the way the world is programmed right now , which is get more likes , get more views , get more attention .

Speaker 2 37:15

Like that's what people seem to be chasing it's all about me and you better like it , Not just like it . You better endorse what I think field believer do If you don't you're the bad guy . But what if my morals just don't encompass something that you're doing ? You better change your morals , because I'm the center . Now you have to . Center is not center , center and therefore whatever makes me happy you have to be in favor of and actually promote in . The world's becoming more and more confused every day .

Speaker 1 37:48

So what would you do if you were 25 right now ? I'd be very happy .

Speaker 2 37:57

It's hard to remember the world when I was 25 because that was a long time ago , but I think I would do what I'm seeing Dr Phil do now . I've not ever seen a full Dr Phil program and the little pieces I saw it wasn't much of a fan . Right .

Speaker 2 38:14

But now he's decided to stand up and talk about how in the world can you endorse and actually do surgery on a little child who's not even mature enough to make decisions yet to change his or her , to allegedly change his or her gender , and he's standing up to that . And how can you have these children coming into the world for a borders that are being all these terrible things are going to happen for them . I really liked the fact I've never met him . I'd like to someday . I like the fact that somebody with some visibility is standing up and saying look , quit the insanity . You don't change the gender of a five year old or eight year old or 12 year old . They're not even old enough to understand what they want yet . You don't do this , you don't do that , you don't do the other . And not doing it with animosity , not doing it with hatred . And if a child has had that surgery , be as gentle and kind and tender and loving to that child as possible .

Speaker 2 39:09

I'm not against mistreating . I am against mistreating anybody . I'm not for mistreating anybody , but the world . If I were 25 , I'd become an activist , but not the kind that you're seeing on TV now . This activist would be toward morality toward what true love really is . True love is not letting the other person do whatever they want to do . True love my two year old's got a fork . He's going to stick it in that plug over the electric himself . True love says let him learn from himself . That's not true love . True love is trying to guide people away from where you know the horn is and teaching and talking and interacting . It was not perfect in the world I grew up in . It was still bad then , but I think it's worse now than it's ever been .

Speaker 1 40:00

What does it look like to truly love and show respect towards someone when you don't agree , but you want to love them ?

Speaker 2 40:09

I think you treat them with value , like I'm not more important than you , you're just as important as I . You have value and I will accept the way you think , you feel , you believe , even if I don't endorse it . Like , okay , I understand that's what you believe , but that's not what I believe . I don't have to endorse it , but I accept the fact that you believe it , but I don't have to change my beliefs or I don't have to encourage it Like good for you , keep going , keep changing in those kinds of ways . I'm not going to endorse anything that I think is not right . I'm not going to endorse anything that I think I'm not going to encourage anything that I think is not right . But can I still love and treat with genuine respect a person into those things , absolutely absolutely , and still be a Christian who believes in right and wrong ? Look at the people who hung out with Jesus . They were the ones everybody else treated terribly yeah , when they come to him , because he thought he endorsed the bad things that they were doing , but they hung out with him because he treated them with love and respect . I think that's the answer and it sounds too polyanisht , but somebody somewhere Kimberly and you're one of those has to stand up and say this is what's right . We don't hate you , but we won't give up on believing the difference between right and wrong , sanity and insanity . I don't mean in the psychological terms , but in the terms of how people are acting . And if we get enough people doing that , then the world will change again in a better way .

Speaker 2 41:54

Gandhi had the right idea . He accomplished a lot . King , martin Luther King Jr , had the right idea . He accomplished a lot and a lot of people followed them . Oh God , raise us up , those leaders , men and women who can put us about , put us into a situation of life , of understanding that , physically , we need to take care of ourselves and , at the same time , not be trying to show ourselves off in an immoral way . Intellectually , that we needed to give and take , to listen , to understand , to be willing to modify . Emotionally , to , yes , my emotions do count , they really do matter , but so do the emotions of other people . And so sometimes I'm going to do the right thing , even when it's not the thing I want to do , and , spiritually , to stop making our own gods and to accept the God that actually exists . I mean , we want him to accept us . I think he's got to be in heaven saying when are you going to accept me ?

Speaker 1 42:54

Wow , I think that was . I don't know how to end it from there , because I believe that was a powerful ending . Thank you for sharing your wisdom .

Speaker 2 43:05

Always thank you for having me on these programs . I appreciate that . I don't know how much longer I'll live , but I always love working with you . Every time I get a chance .

Speaker 1 43:11

I love working with you as well . It's definitely a different topic matter that I haven't covered before , but it's one I believe is important and , with your perspective of what you have lived through and the wisdom you have to foresee where you believe things are headed , I think it's a point .

Speaker 2 43:28

So your viewers and listeners make comments and things like that .

Speaker 1 43:31

They can now . So we have a YouTube channel and they leave comments on videos , so we would love for our listeners to leave a comment on this one .

Speaker 2 43:40

I would love to see their comments .

Speaker 1 43:41

Absolutely Tell us what your takeaways were from today's episode , your further questions that you have , even if you disagree , but be nice .

Respecting Others and Seeking Wisdom

Speaker 1 43:51

Yeah , be nice . That's the point . Treat us with respect , as we will treat you with respect as well . Thank you for joining me today .

Speaker 2 43:58

Thank you .

Speaker 1 44:00

We covered a lot in today's episode and I loved the conversation . I believe that there is a lot of wisdom that should and can be gained from listening to the older generations who have gone before us , who have experienced life , and it's actually one of the crazy things about the American culture and more of the Western cultures is that we tend to value younger voices and not really the voices of the elders , which is very common in more of the Asian cultures . That's one of the things that I've noticed , even in the podcast interviews . I've done so many times when I've interviewed people who have so much life experience . The wisdom that they can bring to the conversation is amazing and I hope that you had some wisdom and key takeaways that you were able to take from today's episode , and I'm going to share with you some of mine .

Speaker 1 44:53

The first key takeaway is how we have definitely entered into a world of what is in it . For me , the society that we live in , the culture that we live in , the ways that we are told to succeed in life are very selfish and self-focused , and I am just as guilty of this as any other person . It's easy to get caught in the rat race of wanting likes wanting followers , wanting growth , all of those things . And it's not that those things are bad , but it's when we put those things in our own image and our own wants , needs and desires above that of others that we begin to see hurt and pain and relationships dissolve and all of the consequences that come with that . So the first key takeaway for today is maybe to ask yourself as I know I will where are the areas in my life in which I've put myself first ? That's kind of interesting because this whole podcast of it Starts With . Attraction is about how we can focus on ourselves and become the best that we can be , but I hope what you understand is we never want to come at that in a selfish way . We don't want to focus on ourselves to the detriment of those that we love in our lives . The goal is to focus on becoming our best selves for the edification and the continued success and satisfaction of the relationships in our life , not the other way around . So maybe you need to ask yourself again as I know I do as well what are some things that may need to change in your mental beliefs or in your daily actions that are showing the people in your life that maybe you're valuing yourself and your time more than you're valuing them .

Speaker 1 46:41

Another key takeaway that I had from today's episode is that it is important to be a person who has strong beliefs , but also a strong respect for people who differ from your beliefs . In fact , I want to challenge you to find someone who is across the party line from you and have a deep , honest conversation where you listen more than you speak . Especially in this season of politics that we're entering into in America , this is going to be a great opportunity for you to exercise that muscle of how to show other people respect , even when you disagree . It's also a great opportunity to remember that politics are not the end all be all . My belief system very much says that it really doesn't matter as much who is in office , as much as it matters who I put my faith in . That's Jesus , not a president of the United States or any other person . We can lose sight of that in the middle of these election seasons , and I encourage you to find what really matters and to encourage and to prioritize relationships with others , even those you disagree with over being right or wanting to win .

Speaker 1 48:01

And my third and final takeaway from the whole episode is that really ? At the end of the day ? Cultures change , things happen . We see this not just in the past couple of decades , but over centuries . Over millennia , there's been a ton of advances and changes in human culture and there's also been a lot of things that stay the same . There are always people who need help . There are always people who are ostracized , who are outcasts , who get looked over because maybe they don't fit in with everyone else .

Love and Making a Difference

Speaker 1 48:34

The key to really making a difference anywhere in the world , as cliche as it sounds , is to love others . To love others by helping to meet the needs that they have physically , intellectually , emotionally and spiritually . So how can you show love to your neighbor or to your enemy ? Starting today , I hope that you enjoyed this episode . If you found it valuable , I hope that you share it with a friend and maybe it gets some conversations started that need to happen to rejuvenate relationships in your life . As always , please leave a review . It helps us to reach even more people and if you would , wherever you're listening to this podcast , especially on Apple , go ahead and hit that follow button . Even on Spotify , it helps that algorithm to help us reach even more people . Until next week , stay strong .