The Way God Shows Up — Katie Simkins

Katie Simkins didn't grow up knowing Jesus.

She didn't grow up in church. She didn't grow up with hope.

At 16, doctors found 11 precancerous growths in her body. A group of strangers prayed over her. The scans came back completely clear, not even scarring.

Weeks later, her brother unexpectedly passed away.

And what followed was a year she calls "the year of darkness."

Walking in physical darkness. Carrying grief, guilt, and the weight of a question she couldn't answer... why would God heal me and then take him?

This conversation wrecked me.

Katie shares the moment she almost gave up. The woman who stopped her in the hallway. The prayer she thought was a goodbye that became a beginning.

And how a thrift store army men set and a stranger's receipt marked "paid in full" is still teaching her kids who God is today.

We talk about: What it looks like to follow Jesus when your friends hate Him. What it means to stop performing your faith and start living it. And why the greatest answer to prayer might not be a changed circumstance... but His presence in the middle of it.

Let's dive in.

I'm Dr. Kimberly Beam Holmes. After a decade transforming marriages at Marriage Helper, I've realized that the greatest tragedy isn't a failed relationship; it's the person who stays stuck and never experiences the fullness of all God intended.

The Way You Show Up is for the high-achiever who is tired of "fine."

We're dismantling the average life to build an exceptional one—using the science of the PIES: Physical, Intellectual, Emotional, and Spiritual health.

If you want to save your marriage, go to Marriage Helper. If you want to master yourself and lead your legacy, stay here.

New episodes every Tuesday.

Don't just exist. Show up.

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Transcript

A Bible Study That Felt Strange

Prayer And A Medical Miracle

SPEAKER_03 1:28

My eldest brother had been hit by a car when he was 14 and I was about 11. Um and that sort of created the shift in when we stopped going to church and my mom started kind of seeking different routes. So yeah, he was hit by a car while riding his bike without a helmet at 60 miles an hour. So he suffered a traumatic brain injury and like multiple injuries that we weren't sure if he was gonna live. We weren't sure if he was gonna ever walk again. Um and he did end up living, and we had no reason to believe that he wouldn't, you know, live and thrive, although he did need supports. He ended up living in assisted living um as he grew up, got older, around 18, um, instead of going to college. And then um when he was just for his 21st birthday, he unexpectedly passed away. Oh yeah. And it was um just a few weeks before that that my mom had been, you know, living this kind of this, I don't know, exploring different types of like paths in life. And she got invited to a Bible study by her neighbor, and she had kind of put it off a bunch of times, like, this is weird, this kind of feels like a cult. I don't know what this is I'm getting invited to. And this friend was neighbor was kind of persistent of like continue continuing to invite her. She's like, Okay, I'm gonna go just to like kind of get her off, get her to stop asking to me. Just shut up, just get her off my back, and you know, and then she had like made up an excuse when she was gonna go. She's like, Okay, I'm gonna like go, and then I'm gonna say I'm not feeling well after 15 minutes and leave. So she's like, I'll go, and then it'll be like my exit plan. And um, my dad had gone with her, and she um she went that night and she didn't end up leaving. Um, she ended up like experiencing what she what we now know is like the Holy Spirit at work in the room. And um she I was going through a health battle where they uh doctors had found 11 precancerous growths in my body. And oh my gosh. Yeah. And um so sh she was like, we need to pray for like her healing. Because I was like, where else is she gonna ask, you know, for people to to pray for pray for that? And they were kind of going around like praying for things. And so they all prayed over me because I was gonna go in for a follow-up appointment to begin starting treatment. And um, sorry, I expect to get emotional at this one. Um and it was like, I think it was like I can't exact on timing, but it was at the next day or like later that week that I went in for my follow-up, and they had removed all the pre precancerous growth for you know, biopsy, and then we were gonna begin treatment. So I was going in for more testing and another scan, and the scans came back perfectly clear. And like even the doctor was like, like, there should be scarring here.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Because of like all the removal, like there should be bleeding here, like there should be some evidence of you know, these precancerous growths in your body, and they're gone. And she like used the word like it's like a like brand new. It looks brand new. And like I at the time wasn't a believer yet, so I was just like, cool. You know, I was like 16 at the time, 16 at the time, and um I was just like, okay, cool, like that that's great. I wasn't thinking much about it. And my mom was like, Oh my goodness, like God healed you. And like that was her moment of like conversion, of like she turned over her light to Jesus and was like, like, fully saw this, like, God use this miracle to bring her to faith.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Yes.

Loss And The Survivor’s Guilt Question

A Year Of Darkness And Light

SPEAKER_03 5:46

And then weeks later, my brother unexpectedly passed away. And so for my mom, it was she knew she says it like I would not have gotten through that had I not known the hope of Jesus that I received weeks prior. And for me, it was like this tension of like beginning to like be introduced to the idea of God in a new way, yeah. And um struggling with this almost survivor's guilt of like, why would he heal me and then like six weeks later take my brother? And so um it was a year um from around like my birthday, probably a year, or no, a year from his death that I came to faith. But it took that whole year of kind of like slowly beginning to see God restore and redeem despite the impossible, you know, and see these little like miracles begin to happen and see my mom carry hope amidst all odds. And like that, witnessing that was, I believe, like culminating and leading me to turning over my life to Jesus. And I call it that year, it's like this great in-between to me. I just like I I call it my year of darkness because I was in such a deep depression depression. I truly feel like all I remember was walking in like a physical darkness. Um and had carrying this just like heavy weight of of just grief with me and like guilt and um a year, fast forward a year to around when my uh the anniversary of my brother's death, the small group that had prayed and that had walked with our family through that year. I mean, they were like also evidence of God's love. They came in, brought meals, cared for us, you know, helped my mom take care of us, you know, she still had three kids. Um, and they were there that night, and I had been contemplating my life and been contemplating like where where hope was to be found because it just felt like after like a year of caring that weight and walking in darkness couldn't be found, and um so I had I had been contemplating a life, but of course, you know, I'm like six, you know, 17-year-old at that point. And I started to even think of like think through that and really contemplate it, and I decided I was done. And I remember walking through the house to go like get something, and the the small group was in the house. And one of the women who had like really been pouring into me a lot through that year, she sat and she was like, Katie, do you know that you can get anything to Jesus? That he wants to take it, that he wants to help you carry it. She's like, and you can just turn your life over to him. And I don't think anyone ever like spoke that directly to me like that. And she was like, all you have to do is you know, cry out to him, hand over your life to him. So these people were evidence of like Jesus' hands and feet to me. And so when this woman spoke that into my life, it was like I felt like she saw me. I felt like she saw these things I was carrying, like and I remember going back to my room and for the first time in my life using Jesus' name and saying out loud, Jesus, I can't do this anymore. I need you. I need you, I need you to take over my life. And I honestly, when I was praying it, which just shows like man, we just we're just so limited in like light of God's power and love for us. Like, in my mind, when I was praying it was like, I'm done, I'm giving up, and this is me letting you know. Um, but in that like exact moment, and this is kind of hard to explain, except to say that like I find things with God are just sometimes unexplainable. Um and I wouldn't have known it had I not been walking in physical darkness, but this physical like light came over me in this moment. Actually, suddenly the wor world was like illuminated, like my eyes had been lifted, and this weight that I'd been carrying suddenly was lighter, and like in that moment I was like I had this like undeniable experience with what I know is like the work of a spirit, and I had this like ownership of like I need to know who this God is, like there's something to this Jesus that I don't understand that I have never experienced before. And going, I think, in talking about like growing up not knowing Jesus and not knowing hope, and then suddenly knowing it in a moment, like it becomes like you can't but can no longer deny it. It becomes like undeniable. Like, because I had but walked in darkness and now new light in a moment, like I can't unsee it. Not that hard things didn't keep happening in my life, but and God obviously never didn't undo my circumstances, you know. My brother didn't come back to life, and I still struggled with pain and grief and and guilt from that that I processed through. Um but man, what I see time and time again in scripture is like despite unchanging circumstances, God entering in, Jesus entering in and drawing near. And what I continue to learn through hard experiences is like that sometimes is the greatest answer to prayer, is his presence. It is the greatest miracle, is his nearness to us in the midst of our pain, not despite it, not necessarily always clearing the storm the way that we wish he would, but entering in to it with us. And so that became became the start of my walk with Jesus.

Doubt And The Power Of Small Groups

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Katie, awesome. I was like just like, I don't even know the next question to ask because it's so powerful. I I knew your brother had passed away. I didn't know that you had had the health struggles, I didn't know like the year of the year of darkness, I didn't know you had contemplated like giving up hope and your life and how God so powerfully met you. During that year of darkness, when your mom was a Christian, um, and you saw this small group of people who like had been strangers just weeks before your your brother dying, but now they were like there and helping and giving meals and what was like were you what was your I don't even know the right word? Like, did you logically doubt? Did you emotionally doubt? Like during that year of your mom being a Christian, but you were not yet, what was going on in your head that was kind of keeping you from it?

SPEAKER_03 14:17

I mean, I was 16.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

So I think I thought it was strange.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

I think me and my brothers were like, this was weird. What are these people doing? Um, and we had never, you know, been exposed to it. And um, but it was ev there was like evidence of like something is different in this home when these people are here. They truly carried Jesus' like light into that house into a very dark season of our life. Yeah. You know, when my mom couldn't get out of bed, and when we were all, you know, locking ourselves in our rooms and like struggling in the pits of grief, and gathered all together as a family in one room, trying to just survive, you know. And it was like there's something different about these people, and so I I think that's what I noticed, and I I felt drawn to it, honestly. I felt drawn to that when these people come in, a little bit of light is shed in our house in a way that we desperately need, and I was desperately longing for. I think we all do, I think that's like the deepest longing of all of us is for for Jesus, for more of him, and so I think I was experiencing that, I was witnessing that. Um, but again, I was 16, so I think I was wanting to put up the front of like, I'm not, I'm not gonna be easy to like win away here. And I'm like, I am trying to avoid at all costs when they were like coming and doing their group, you know, as the year progressed and they would come, you know, meet for their small group in our home. And I would just kind of observe, I would remember kind of like listening in, and man, such a testimony to small groups, I think, because even if your whole family isn't participating, like inviting that into your life, inviting people who help carry Christ's love into your life, Christ's light into your home, like it is powerful. I think it impacts your family more than you might realize, even if you feel like, oh man, my no one else wants to come, or my kids are like annoyed by it, or they're resistant, like you know, just trusting what God is doing and like the power of Him at work in your home and in your life, and in the people that are around you forming you and impacting you. So, yeah, I would say that was kind of my response to it.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

So your eyes were open, there was this illumination of your world. What did your life look like that day forward? What changed?

SPEAKER_03 17:22

You know, so it had been a year past. Um, that following December was about two months later, um, was the my brother's birthday would have been my brother's birthday. And um being, you know, a year out now from his death, my mom was like, I just want to do something. I just want a reason to get up on his birthday. And she's like, I just wish I could bake him a cake. I just could wish I could like be doing what a normal mom would do on your kid's birthday. And um, she got this idea to she's like, maybe I'll bake something for a homeless shelter because um my brother struggled a lot in the final years of his life. And um he also had a heart for people who are homeless, and so she was just felt drawn to to care for people who are walking through homelessness, and that long, very long story short turned into a 501c3 homeless ministry that she's now the founder and director of. And so um, following quickly following my you know, coming to know Jesus, our family started this ministry, and that was my first church. Was on Sundays, we would gather with about a hundred men and women, some just out of jail, some just off the streets, some you know, struggling with addiction. And we would gather at tables and we would have a short, very short sermon, like a 20-minute, and then we would share a meal together. And it wasn't like uh necessarily like uh um serving the meal as much as we would all, it was a buffet, you know, people would bring food and we would all just eat together. And I just remember for the first time in my life feeling like fully accepted when I sat at that table, like hearing people different people from all different walks of life, all different struggles, and I felt like I could be, I could be honest and I could show up exactly as I was. And so I started to see what the kingdom of God looked like and what the church was supposed to look like, and just Jesus' ministry, like at work and um what he called us to. And so that was my experience for several years was like, this is my church, was the was a homeless ministry. And so can as you can imagine, like the shift to start to um attend churches outside of that was difficult for me.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

And um, I think I was too critical, probably. I think I was too critical because I I think I would walk in thinking, well, they just don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Yeah.

Discernment Versus Staying Close

SPEAKER_03 20:17

They just don't get it. And if they, you know, if they were doing what we like welcoming men and women who are homeless, or like, what are what are they doing? They're all just sitting here. Why aren't they like going out and doing something or you know, loving people who are in need who are right outside the doors? Because I was living at right after high school, I moved to the city, and so it was like seeing, you know, on display needs everywhere. Um, so it was a struggle for me to begin to build Christian community. A lot of my friends in high school were like, um, they were having like anarchy parties. They were having, I mean, they when I started sharing my faith when that shift happened, I was like the umpire. Like, I have to tell all of them. Like, they all need to know. And I was like crazy annoyed. Like they were like, I mean, they would kind of like I had friends who would like kind of curse me out, like, do not speak his name in front of me. Like, do not say that, do not speak about that to me. And I was of course, like, I need to tell them though, like, I need to tell them. And I look back now, I'm like, I was probably so annoying and so overwhelming to like have this friend who was like one way the day before, and then the next day was like, you have to know about Jesus. And um, so I struggled to make that shift for a while and uh struggled to move away from those friends, but also felt like I was caught in this like I don't know if middle space is the right word, where it was like starting to see where God had me planted. And it was like I'm involved in this community of men and women struggling with homelessness and addiction and um coming out of jail, and then I'm, you know, in this community of people who hate Jesus. I mean, would say to my face, like, hated him, and like have parties where like hated him, you know? And um, I was a musician too at the time and would get like invited to play music at these parties. So I was like starting to write these songs about my faith and God and like playing them and then about the wording. Yeah, and which would start like conversations like what I love that song. What is that like about? Wow. And so I just started to see God's placement of me in those places. I'm like, okay, like this is just where I'm gonna be. This is just my community, is to just be the loner. Like, I'm just gonna be the loner in the midst of like of people who need Jesus. And I think, you know, I was young and naive. Um but over time, you know, started God started to really convict me about needing community and beginning to kind of put myself out there to build strong Christ centered community with people my age. Yeah, people who I could, you know, um begin. to yeah like go deep with and do life with um and yeah that's that that's actually what led to me meeting Ian was like God's kind of clear conviction to like show up Katie it's time to show up to like trust that like whatever criticism you're gonna have about the church you show up to like that I'm gonna be there and meet with you and I need you to like show up and so what I love about it is you didn't shy away I you know I told you before we started I grew up in a very Christian everything Christian family Christian school Christian college Christian Christian like everything which I don't hate I don't hate like I I'm appreciative of so many things um but there's never been a time that I haven't known about God or believed God was real there's definitely been times where I've doubted if God was good.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Like I think that's the way God or uh not God that's the way that Satan has tried to like get me. It's like okay I can't like convince you he's not real but I can convince you all these other things about him or try to convince you like he's not good. He's not listening he doesn't love you. But one of the things that honestly I mean even I've been guilty of I won't even say this. I know and I think several Christians uh have been as well is like oh I I can't go to that party because you're not Christians right but you went and you played the music right like you you were like participated I'm gonna go and and be the light of Jesus in the middle of a place that doesn't have it and not being scared about that and not being like uh legalistic about that. So I grew up in a very my parents weren't this way but the denomination I grew up in was very like you do the right things so that it was much more work space. Yeah yeah yeah and so it would be like oh don't get out of line don't don't get out of line like don't go to the places where a lot of guilt is like if you don't yes yeah much more much more that um and so I was just thinking like man if I was invited to one of those parties in high school like I probably wouldn't go I probably wouldn't even have the foresight of like but what if I could go be the light of Jesus I think I'd be like oh like I might get in trouble if I go there like I might yeah that's probably good discernment to not be going to those and I think that's an interesting question like discernment even as no matter where someone is in their faith like discernment versus actually living out the Great Commission like go and teach others and teach people to be my disciples and like go out and and I think we do need more Christians who are willing to go to things that they don't necessarily agree with to be the hands and feet of Jesus in it. But instead it just seems more and more that there's just more division right where we're like oh I can't be associated with those people or doing that thing because I'm like this untainted Christian over here.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

How do you think about that?

Doubting God’s Goodness And Showing Up

SPEAKER_03 26:46

What do you think Andy, what do we do? I know what do we do? What do we do? Ian has a saying and I don't know if I'll get it right. So sorry Ian but that it's hard to hate people up close and I think that's so true that I could do that because I already loved them. Because I mean I'd known them before I had this shift and I became I think because of my experience coming to faith I became really in tune to feeling and sensing darkness and light and I could feel that for them these people I loved um and I think about like even Jesus like speaking to his disciples who didn't have it all together who were like from all different walks of life and um just the way he talked to them like even near the end like he's looking at these people who he loves and he's just like desperate for them to know him to like carry him to believe him you know to follow in his way and I resonate with that like I I love these people I knew them for for years and even in their like their anger towards like me trying to share my faith it's like oh my gosh I desperately want you to know this. Because I knew it and it changed my life you know so I I think that is it is it's getting up close enough to begin to love people to not just enter in when it's convenient for trying to check a box with our faith but to actually build relational equity enough where there's like trust built where we we're not just doing it again to like try to convert but because like we desperately want people to know him. And so I think it is when we enter into people's lives in that way and we come to know them and love them we should long for them to to know Jesus. But I do think it of course it's like healthy to have good boundaries and to I think that what was what I was learning as well was like I need to have a a core of people who are pouring into me who are um like minded in their faith as well outside of this because I think I for so long thought I'm like I'm gonna do this on my like I can do this on my own you know I can do this I can I can be a loner in the midst of people who don't believe what I believe and um but I think I realized quickly that I was like oh I'm like I am limited and God desires for me to be in Christ centered community and so it is like walking that line and having those boundaries of like who are the people who are you are being most um influenced by and then like who are the people though that like God is placing in front of you that you can like get up close with you know and come to know their stories and back to Ian's thing like stop hating or stop hat having assumptions about I think we hold a lot of assumptions about people and we keep a distance that's very true. Did you doubt any time after you turned 17 I like you I I've never I've not struggled much with like doubting God's existence um but I definitely have had lower expectations of him of him I've definitely doubted that he was going to show up um in the the big things that I faced or in the small things. And that's been part of my practice of like looking back and remembering and seeing those times when I thought I clearly like God you couldn't be in this because of how bad things are and then looking to see the provision of his promises and the way that he held the bigger picture and the way that he came through in in ways that maybe I wouldn't have thought or planned but that were you know so much better. So yeah I think in that way I I have doubted and I still struggle when hard things happen it's like are you gonna show up God? What I I think what I've learned is that I don't limit God I I think I've I've struggled with some of the guilt of like well if I'm not believing he's gonna do it then maybe he just won't do it. Yeah maybe he's gonna like with be a withholding God. Like if I don't have enough faith if I don't have enough faith yeah if I'm not if I'm not confident in him that he's gonna do it yeah then maybe he won't and then I see him and there's abundant love for for us for me do it even though I doubted even though I had lower expectations um just such a reminder of his abundant love for us that we do not thwart his plans that we do not limit him by our lack of faith but that where our faith lacks like his faith provides and fills in and finishes the race for us on our behalf. I know we were talking last night too about this like I think sometimes I want to see the fruit of things I want to see the promise and we don't always get to see it. It's not like I'm coming to terms over experiences in my life where I'm like it's not always mine to see it is mine to be faithful to the things he's putting in front of me and trust him with the greater picture and trust that he holds it trust that he knows what he's doing and that if the end fruit or the end promise brings him more glory like is that worth it and I I think I want I keep coming back to that question in my life too like is it worth it and yes I want my answer to always be yes so yeah I think in that way is how I've doubted not his existence but just like are you gonna are you gonna come through on this one?

Rhythms That Keep Faith Grounded

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah. What are the practices you have that keep you grounded and able to just so easily go back to like this is what like this is who God is this is what God says this is when I even when I'm doubting that he's good this is what I can believe instead like what is what is your daily weekly monthly rhythms that really help you stay grounded.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

I mean I'm a mom with three little boys so I mean honestly my prayer life sometimes happens a lot out loud at the kitchen sink in our going um when I was pregnant with my last baby I've had really difficult high risk pregnancies and so extremely sick to the point of needing to go to the hospital a few times throughout it and I just remember praying daily like out loud to Jesus and honestly my my prayers were often so simple because I was so sick. It was just like Jesus help me I need you and I remember my four year old at the time was like mama are you gonna keep asking Jesus for help like after the baby comes and I was like yes I am but like I'm not gonna always be this sick hopefully um and so I think I felt guilty. I remember looking back and like feeling guilty about like being so desperate in that time that that my kids were seeing my faith in this desperate place. But then when he came to me it was just like such a reminder of like the impact a witness of our life to other people and the way that we practice our faith like in the desperate seasons. When we're just calling out to him and I think the other thing has been just the practice of I mean I think I just pray all the time I feel like I'm just like always talking to always talking to him and remembering to like turn to him to fix my eyes on him and the practice I've been doing is um just looking to trace his hand. So I recently did this thing where I drew out a line of my life from you know when I was born to now and just placing all the significant moments like high and low throughout my life just kind of sitting with those and then looking back and seeing to look for God. And so that's been my practice of when I'm in scripture just like continuing to look for him. And I think it's a practice we see in early believers too is this like ritual remembrance, this ability to when we're in seasons of long waiting and sometimes we see in scripture very long waiting where God is all but silent on a promise that they're waiting on this practice to look back, to turn our eyes back towards Jesus and to look back at these stories these like stories we take for granted of testimonies of God's faithfulness despite all odds and so that's been a practice I've been doing of just continuing to look back and see and trace God's hand um that is something I'm I've been really passionate about especially in walking through some recent circumstances in my own life where like I really need to remember that you are the same God not only who's faithful in my life years prior but who was faithful thousands of years ago you know who was faithful in the stories of of these of these early believers and to see your hand at work. And so I think that's been a big practice for me. And then the with ministry too with the Monday night like thinking about discipling a community of women and helping them live that out it's been so um impactful for me too to really think about how do we move beyond Sundays? How do we move from the place of receiving God's word to actually not just responding and reflecting on it but like applying it living it out seeing it start to bear fruit in our lives and our weeks and the in-between of Sundays has become a passion point for me as well. And so that has become a big part of my practice too of like taking what we're learning as a church and just really digesting it reflecting it researching and being in God's word being in prayer and like okay God how do we how do we move this well and so those are some of the things I've currently been doing to just remain with my eyes fixed on him. I love that do you have any practices with your boys we've been reading this book called the Book of Belonging that's really beautiful have you heard it. So I love reading those Bible stories. In the morning Ian reads there's like he would read like a devotional in the morning and then at night we usually we'll pray but honestly just like conversations in the car on the way to and from and then at like the dinner table we've made dinner like a pretty like we are at the table together and we're praying and we're talking about our days and just like those opportunities to point them back to God and help them see God and and just be pointing out God in the going like my son um I wrote about this the other day because I was like God's just so cool how he just like shows up when you least expect him we were at the thrift store and my son had of course wandered to the toy aisle and found this like bin of army men it's like plastic Tupperware. This is like a Christmas Tupperware full army men that was like three dollars which I could have bought for him but we've tried to get in the habit of like not buying things that are non-essentials you know outside of birthdays and stuff. So they have allowance and I'm like do you is that something you want to spend your money on he's like I really want it but I guess I guess I don't need it. And so we like carefully put it back on the shelf and he was like like it's like he like wanted to remember where it was and we walked away and we're going to get some school clothes um per school event they had over in the clothes section and like moments later this old man walks up with the bin this little tupperware of army men and marked on it was the receipt that it had been paid for. And he hands it to Owen he's like I just want you to remember that God loves you and he's good and he's still at work doing good things in this world. I was like I'm kind of like crying in the like thrift store aisle I would be too but it was like this moment for me to like I felt like I talked to Ow nonstop that day it was like oh do you see God's goodness do you see how he loves you do you see how he meets your needs like and just that that like mark of like paid in full even when we didn't deserve it you know and it was like even though he didn't buy this or like choose to get this thing God provided it anyway just because he's so good because he's so abundant and so those just those little opportunities where like we see God and like we can tune in and I feel like my boys probably teach me more about Jesus than I teach them sometimes.

Life As A Pastor’s Family

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Like my middle son the other day was taking pictures of like light beams in the house and he's like look mom God keeps showing up God keeps showing up and you know I'm doing the dishes I'm like but then I'm like drawn in I'm like yeah like that's so cool and just those moments to tune in and remember to like to look for God in like the little light beam breaking through a shadow um and just have that awe and wonder like to be reinvited into that through my kids honestly I feel like they do more discipling of me than I do of them sometimes but that's I love that so when I was in ninth grade so I was a pastor's kid growing up my dad was a minister for the majority of my life um and I remember one yeah okay yeah and uh the I remember one time someone who who was like a mentor in my youth group and they had been a pastor's kid and they said do you ever feel like you're just living in a glass house because there's you're like your dad's always on stage your family's always being talked about like there's an expectation of you at youth group there's you know in like your family everyone feels like they know and there's this it's unique it's unique do you ever feel like you're living in a glass house oh for sure yeah I think there's some benefit to not the not knowing that I've had growing up of like when I was getting married to Ian I'm just like well he's a pastor that's interesting we'll see how that works out um and I just had no idea what that fully I don't think I fully understood what that was gonna mean to like we were doing ministry together and I was excited like we're gonna do ministry together and um I had this a pastor's wife while we were dating speaking to my life and just say you know you are you are first God's daughter you're Katie you're not Pastor's wife you are that is one of gonna be one of your things but like remember who you are and don't lose yourself and don't let anyone tell you like who you're supposed to be um and the bridge has just been so good at at letting um staff spouses and me just kind of like follow God's leading and calling and placement and not force anything into like where I I should be serving or how much.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

And so it's just been very natural to get to to pray and let God lead that. But certainly you feel the like pressure to and responsibility to represent what I I think sometimes people look to especially I mean Ian more than me even of like wow you know this like oh you must be so holy you must have it all together and I'm just one of those people I'm like I don't don't have it all together. And so I think it's helped in that not knowing that I was supposed to have a plastered smile on my face and have it all together because I had friends when I was getting married to Ian be like you are so lucky. I have always wanted to marry a pastor and I was like is that a thing oh that people were like went to school to like I'm gonna marry a pastor and that like pastor's wife is like my my plan. And so I was like I didn't know I'm like that's great. I just love Ian and there's this like I'm excited about like okay God has him doing ministry and I love mini ministry people and um so I think that's helped but certainly I'm sure I've been a disappointment to people of like I'm like why is she always a hot mess? No kids are just you know running around and she's like her hair I don't know. But I I think I've had seasons where I've certainly been tempted to try to polish it up and then quickly learn like nope, don't get it polished God's gonna quickly reveal like the the real story. So yeah I think Certainly felt that I I think as a mom, I now feel even more protective and concerned for my boys. And something really stuck with me that I heard once is that the greatest deterrent to faith for specifically ministry kids is hypocrisy in the home. Yeah. So it's like if I'm me or Ian is a polished version out here, and then we look really different at home, like our greatest ministry, our home, our our family, our kids, like we'll see that. We'll sense that. And certainly they call us out all the time and things. And it's like it's it's so um formative and important and to like continue to be held a posture of like humility in that in front of them and in front of other people. Just like because if if other people see this image of a perfect perfect person who's has it all together, it's like where is there room to not have it all? Where's room to not have it all together and like still be following in the way of Jesus? Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_00 46:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

So still navigating and figuring it out, I feel still learning as I go, but just grateful for the the bridge, the church that we're at right now, and just the way that they've allowed me to to lean into the things that I I do feel God calling me to do and giving me room to cast vision for those things and run with those things.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

And um so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

I mean, y'all have to be hit with spiritual warfare harder than most because of the positions, like Satan wants nothing more than pastors and their marriages to fall apart, and so that everyone else in the church will be like, oh, like they can't do it like we can either, or just any other type of spiritual warfare, like it then to term from their faith, whatever. Like there's a reason in the New Testament, it's like, listen, if you're gonna be preachers or teachers, like this is gonna be harder. Yeah. And and so I pray for y'all often just because I know the pressure. Not I mean everyone needs it, but but just because I'm like, I y'all hand, I think that y'all are, I think y'all so beautifully encompass so many, like you're so refreshing as people and relatable and humble. Like for like for the listeners, Ian's been on a couple of times, but we hadn't like me and my husband had no idea. We love the fact that we had no idea that Ian had however many hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram. Like from the pulpit, you would never know. You'd never you'd barely know he has a book that's gonna be coming out, right? Like he's just y'all both are so humble. And I, and from being in the church world, like where my dad was a pastor and you know, just being around pastors, I think the all like the constant struggle is like to it turning into performance.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

Yes, yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 48:48

And and so it's just like God keep them, like just keep them, just like yes, keep them because I know that the spiritual warfare is like turned up for your family because of what God has called y'all to do. And I think you do it beautifully.

SPEAKER_03 49:08

Oh, thank you.

Platform Faith And Avoiding Performance

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Well, you're wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

I know, and it's been something I I think about a lot because you see now with like the social media pastor, like the amount of people who are have platform to speak about Jesus, and like there, I think there can be good drawn from that. Like it could can be used for real good. Um, but also there's this like temptation to that I think we need to be careful of where if we're speaking more passionately to and about Jesus from a platform or in public than we are in the private of our home, that relationship is more performance-based than it is personal, and that's where it's a red flag, like it's yeah, um, to be concerned. And I mean, it's something that of course we have to like fight against and pray against. And certainly I there are many days where I'm like, well, Satan get behind me, you know. And I think we both are where it's like, yeah, he will when God is up to something good and he wants to to move, like you will see, you will see the work of Satan. He's he's gonna be move, be move on the move. And so I think it's good to be aware of that and not try to like pretend like it doesn't exist, but to be prepared for it. Um, so certainly, I mean, we go to therapy and like we we work on our marriage, and it's something that we're like, we know, like we this has to be strong for in order for us to be able to authentically speak into the lives of other people's lives and marriages, like we don't have to have it perfectly all together, but we do have to be rooted in Christ. Like we do have to um be getting that right, yeah. As far as like yeah, where we are rooted from and um our our heart posture too. When you when you get on a stage or on a you're on a platform, like you really have to check the intent of your heart and be praying before you're posting, you know, seeking God before you're like doing a a mic drop or even writing a sermon. Like if you're not seeking God on that, um yeah, that that should that would be a concern to me. So it's something we don't take lightly and something that we yeah I don't know that we get perfectly all the time to like we are human, but we certainly like are constantly working against that, like okay, don't let us fall to that. Um and Ian has certainly invited me into that too, like as you know, like you said, I mean, as his followers grew, it was I remember him like telling me, like, hey, don't let me change, like, don't let me like fall into something that I don't want to. And um, I think we're able to be that kind of grounding for each other, too. So just kind of like the check of like, hey, I know you and you you can most see a person at home, there you can see their true selves at home and how things are affecting them and the weight we carry from ministry and like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

So yeah.

Authenticity And A Life That Points

SPEAKER_01 52:46

I love, I think often about what John Maxwell said once about uh someone was telling him when he was younger, he was like, God has given you a gift, but that means two things. Number one, it's not you, and number two, it's a gift, like for you to use to his glory and to give back, but never once think this is you. Yeah. And I just love that heart posture of like, okay, God, whatever gift it is that you've given me, you, like anyone listening, help us to remember it's not about us and to like use it to your glory. Yeah. To our to our best extent. Okay, I have two final questions for you. Okay, yeah. Uh so what is the name of this podcast? Is The Way You Show Up. When you think about the way you want to show up, what is it?

SPEAKER_03 53:45

I mean, auth authenticity is a huge value to me. So I I always want to show up authentically as I am. Um and I I want to be someone who consistently points back to God. One of my life verses lately, it's been Psalm 107. So give thanks to the Lord for He is good, his mercy endures forever, and let the redeemed of the Lord say so. And other translations says let them tell their story. And so, just in experiences I've been through, I'm like, I don't want to keep quiet about what God's done in my life because I have had seasons where I've been more introverted and reserved and wanting to take the back seat rather than speaking up and sharing what God's at work doing. And so, yeah, I want to show up trusting like every day what God has placed in front of me and then the opportunity to like reveal more of him, whether it's just like to my kids and my family or to someone in passing, like yeah, I guess that would be my hardest that I would I would show up authentic and in a way that um points back is a is a life that points back to him, living a life that points back to Jesus in the hard and the good. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

What are the things that you think help you to continue to show up that way?

SPEAKER_03 55:14

That's a good question. I think just being really humbled by by life, by like the storms of life and by like the waves of like having to get up again or um just seeing being just humbled by God's abundant love for me and grace to me. Um I I think that allows me to remember like it is not about me, and it is like I said earlier, like it is not always mine to see the fruit. Um and yeah, simply that like every day I have an opportunity to like point people back to who God is and what he's done in my life, and um yeah, I think that that humbling for sure has like allowed me to be like, yeah, but I can show up as I am and not keep quiet about what God's done in my life. Um because I've learned through some hard, really hard circumstances that every day matters. And if I'm only given today, like what am I gonna do with it? So I think that requires a lot of grace sometimes for myself of like I can get really hard on myself at the end of a day, like oh I gotta stop today. I didn't I didn't get it all right today. And then it's just remembering like his grace that washes over us at the end of every day, like okay. But then I I can turn back to him and tomorrow's another day. Um so yeah, I think ultimately just that the humbling process of life has allowed me to like slowly learn to just show up that way.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

Katie, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Amazing, you have an amazing story, an amazing witness for Christ and what's happened in your life. And I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. Thank you so much for talking with me today.

Key Takeaways And Listener Challenge

SPEAKER_03 57:24

Me too. It was such an honor. So honored to be here and get to share about God, what he's doing in my life. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Honestly, y'all, I typically have three key takeaways, and here's something you should do. I'm a little bit at a loss because I believe that the story that Katie shared with us today, several of the stories that Katie shared with us today, really speak for themselves. I am leaving this conversation personally thinking about two key things. The first one is where are the thumbprints of God in my life? In what ways has God shown up for me, for my family, and how can I do a better job of remembering those things, writing those things down, having those be the stacked stones that I remember when times get hard and when times are good. Y'all, I'm the kind of person that when I'm reading scripture, I typically, I can't believe I'm about to say this, I typically like skip over the parts that talk about like, oh, praise the Lord, especially in the Psalms. But even yesterday I was reading Psalm 34.1 and or I was reading all of Psalms 34. And as I skipped forward, I was like, oh, I love the part about tasting and seeing that the Lord is good, about him being with those and overcoming all of their those with who love him and overcoming all of their fears. But I realized I kept skipping over the first three verses. And so I actually wrote the first verse of Psalm 34 on my hand. I will extol the Lord at all times. His praise will always be on my lips. I do such a bad job at this that I literally just wrote the first letter of each of those words on my hand, and I have been rewriting it and rewriting it and rewriting it because I want to do a better job of extolling the Lord at all times. His praise will always be on my lips. And let that be the thing that I am meditating on right now. So that's number one. My second key takeaway that I have from that I am thinking of from this conversation is making sure that what I'm doing is not coming from a place of performance, which can be very hard, but is coming from a place of rootedness and praise and following what God wants me to do before I shoot an episode, before I post on Instagram, whatever it might be, and even the things people don't see before I go home, before I go work out, before whatever it might be, what is the mindset and heart posture that I'm taking into that? And honestly, that's something I needed to be reminded of today. So I'm thankful for my friend Katie. I would love to know your key takeaways from today's episode as well. If you're watching on YouTube, leave a comment below. Share this with a friend who will be edified from hearing this conversation today. Until next week, stay strong.