Desperate Forgiveness Part One with Al and Lisa Robertson

Has there ever been a person or circumstance in your life that you have had difficulty moving on from? Has there been someone who hurt you? Has something happened that you can't seem to move past no matter how much you want to? No matter how much you have tried? If you feel stuck, then this podcast episode is for you. 

In today's episode, Kimberly Holmes speaks with Al and Lisa Robertson of Duck Dynasty, who are sharing their story of desperate forgiveness. You will hear about how they have used forgiveness to free them, heal them, and restore their marriage. 

Today’s Speakers - Al and Lisa Robertson

Alan Robertson is the oldest son of the Duck Commander, Phil Robertson and his wife, Miss Kay and Lisa calls herself “the original Robertson daughter-in-law”.  They appeared on the family’s hit television show, Duck Dynasty on A&E, with the rest of the family where Al was known as the beardless brother. They pastored for 22+ years at the White’s Ferry Road Church in West Monroe, LA before returning to the family business, Duck Commander, to appear on the TV show and speak around the country. They partnered with Miss Kay and opened Miss Kay’s Sweets and Eats in West Monroe in 2016.

Al and Lisa have written and co-written devotional books, books about the Robertson family and also their own story, A New Season. They partnered with Focus on the Family for their latest book, Desperate Forgiveness. 

Al also started a production company with his cousin, Zach Dasher that produces shows on BlazeTV.com, including Phil’s show, In the Woods With Phil. He is also the host of Phil’s Podcast, Unashamed with Phil Robertson, also starring his brother Jase,

 Alan and Lisa have been married for 35 years, have two married daughters, four granddaughters and two grandsons.  Their passion is spending time with their family, traveling together, writing books, doing marriage retreats, speaking for pro-life causes and working hard to help strengthen and save marriages by sharing what God has done in their own marriage through brokenness, renewal, hope and forgiveness.

 Book: Desperate Forgiveness

You’ll Learn

• How and why to forgive yourself and others
• How to know if forgiveness has happened
• How to view forgiveness from a different perspective
• How to quit being a victim and become a victor

It Starts With Attraction Ep. 015: Desperate Forgiveness: Part 1 with Al and Lisa Robertson

Your Host: Kimberly Beam Holmes, Expert in Self-Improvement and Relationships


Kimberly Beam Holmes has applied her master's degree in psychology for over ten years, acting as the CEO of Marriage Helper & CEO and Creator of PIES University, being a wife and mother herself, and researching how attraction affects relationships. Her videos, podcasts, and following reach over 500,000 people a month who are making changes and becoming the best they can be.

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Transcript

Kimberly Holmes : 0:00

Has there ever been a person or a circumstance in your life that you have had difficulty moving on from? Maybe even now you were thinking of a situation, or a person who has hurt you, or something that has happened to that you can't seem to move past No matter how much you want to no matter how much you've tried, and you just feel so stuck. If that's you, then this podcast episode is for you. Today I am joined by Al and Lisa Robertson, part of the duck commander family, part of the duck dynasty dynasty, who are sharing their story of desperate forgiveness and how they have used forgiveness to free them, to heal them and to do amazing things in restoring not only their marriage, and not only their family, but impacting them affecting thousands of people in their world. Now I've been friends with Alan Lisa for a while. So you're going to listen to this podcast like you're listening to a conversation between two friends. And so there's some things I need to key you in on so that you understand some of the things that we're talking about. First of all, we are covering so much of what Al and Lisa discuss in their book desperate forgiveness, which is amazing. But in that book, Alan Lisa both recount the stories and circumstances that have happened in their lives, that for all intents and purposes are very difficult to forgive. Some might even say, on forgivable things that many people choose not to forget and to hold on to as resentment and anger. I won't share every part of it because I do believe you should read the book. But the brief overview is that when owl was a child, his parents fill in Miss Kay Robertson. went through a really difficult time in Their marriage, Phil was drinking, he was having affairs. He was even abusive to his wife, Miss Kay. And now it was the oldest brother who had to watch all of this happen and unfold. It was extremely difficult, of course. But as this happened, this is what he sees. He also got to see the other side of this, which was his mother, accepting fill back into her life into their life, radically forgiving him and watching the 180 conversion of his father into an amazing man that he is today. From this, though it didn't come without consequences to the children in the family. Al experienced a rebellion as he entered into his teenage years, and he shares more about that in the book. He was dating Lisa, but he also cheated on Lisa as they were dating, which affected Lisa in such a way where she with her own past of sexual abuse of being in a family where parents wanted to keep a beautiful picture. Keeping make it look like things were perfect on the outside. Lisa didn't feel like she could fail. That led her to do some things, more of which are shared about in the book, but it also led her to seek the attention of other men. And you can see this is a recipe for disaster right? So Al and Lisa, both come with these predispositions to certain things, which are kind of this perfect storm. Al cheats on Lisa before they're when they're dating before they're married. Lisa's already vulnerable to wanting and seeking attention from men. And so this hurts her trust even more. But they do get married. And Al and Lisa very famously share their story about how Lisa continued to have affairs how out forgave her for it, how they reconciled their family. But in this book, they also continue to share about how even though they have forgiven other family circumstances or other people that They have been able to come in contact with who have formed and molded their journey towards forgiveness. I can't wait for you to listen to this episode. It's going to be part one. Next week you will hear part two. But in this first part, we're getting down into why they decided to write a book about forgiveness. what is so important about forgiveness and how they learned to trust each other again in their marriage. So here is part one of learning how to forgive without and Lisa Robertson Hey, my name is Kimberly Holmes and this is it starts with attraction, where we discuss how to become the most attractive that you can be physically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually. Or as this insiders call it, the pies. You can become more attractive to others and most importantly to yourself. We will teach you how, let's dive in Before we get started here, remember that we have a full community of people who are dedicated to encouraging you and supporting you as you are learning to become the most attractive that you can be physically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually. You can find that community on Facebook by searching for hashtag working on my pies all one word and request to join there. I would also love for you to join me on Instagram I am really revving up all of the things I'm doing over there giving you tips and encouragement and different things that you can do and ideas to work on your pies by showing you how I'm doing it in my own life. You can find me by going to Instagram and searching for Kimberly Beam Holmes That's all one word. Look forward to connecting with you on Instagram. You gave me your book desperate forgiveness last year because it was about a year ago just over a year ago that we were at my parent 15th anniversary party. And it was probably I didn't know it when you gave it to me, but oh my goodness, such a godsend. And I am embarrassed to say it wasn't until this past week that I was like, I need to read this book because I felt like I knew your story. So I was like, I think I get it. Oh my, oh my goodness, this book is amazing in so many ways. And so now that I've read it cover to cover one of the chapter a couple of chapters multiple times, I'm like, I have a whole new set of questions that I want to add. Because it's so raw, everything in it, everything you guys talk about and touch on. It's like this is the real stuff that people have to deal with and forgive. And this past year of my life, I have had to come to head with so many of these things that I didn't realize I hadn't forgiven from childhood or from things that happened to you You know, that people had done to me and said to me for just years, and I'm reading this book, and so many parts of it, I got emotional because I was like, This is truth, and the fact that they are putting their story on the line, the dirty, nasty, like everything that people try and hide. This book is amazing. It is amazing.

Al Robertson : 7:22

Thanks. Well, we appreciate that. And, you know, I mean, obviously, you know, and your dad and mom are gracious enough to allow us to, you know, tell some of their stories as well along with other people that have impacted us and people that, you know, we know their story is impacting other people. And so, you know, it's really great that it impacts you that you that way, because, you know, you're kind of a direct product of one of the things that really helped us and that was your mom and dad finding that same way to, you know, find their way to forgiveness.

Kimberly Holmes : 7:55

Yes, it's amazing. I'm probably as we talk something We'll come out. But what prompted you to write the book in the first place, because you'd already written the book that was really about your story and new season, which in and of itself is an amazing book. And your story is amazing. It's impacted, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. So what led you to say we're gonna put it all on the line, let people know, all of the things we have struggled with, and write a book about it.

Al Robertson : 8:27

So I think for us, it was probably the, you know, when we, we had been, you know, basically, at the time about 15 years, 15 or 16 years, when we, you know, wrote our first book removed from our own just disaster, you know, of our marriage and everything we were trying to do and almost lost everything. And so, you know, that it had a lot of time to sort of brew our story itself. And obviously, we're on a, you know, our families on the hit television show and so it was like, okay, God built a plan. Now we've been, you know, doing our testimony all over the country, we've been helping couples and, and then just seeing amazing things happen over the course of that 15 or 16 years. And so when the time came for us to write our story to kind of, you know, everyone in our family was writing books, and you know, the public is just gobbling them up. And so we told our story, but you know, our story had been around a long time from our perspective. But of course, for most people, the first time they were hearing this stuff. The difference in desperate was after a couple of years went by after that book, we wanted to tell some more stories, not just iers I mean, ours was the anchor point, because that's how we understood forgiveness, the way we understand it now. But we wanted to be able to tell other stories of people we had helped and people we had that it helped us with the people that we had seen. And even some people that were still trying to figure it out. They weren't there yet, so much like on TV days. I know they were to be determined because, you know, maybe they couldn't make restitution than this. Life, you know, with this with this situation, maybe someone, you know, there's some in there about a father and a son and a dad and not everybody's still alive. So we want to tell those stories along with some biblical stories that really fit the narrative. Because if you look at it really, I mean, the Bible is just a giant book about forgiveness and redemption, and, and about families and nations and, you know, people trying to figure it out. And so we want to tell some biblical stories. And with that, so it was really kind of more of a ministry driven idea from it. And so, you know, our first book, we just basically told our story to a wonderful writer, and then she just, you know, tell the story, and it was powerful impact to people. This one, Lisa and I were much more hands on, in putting it together. And we even presented it all the different chapters as as I presentations here at our church, which kind of allowed us to really, you know, work through some of our thought processes. So, it was a labor of love. It took about a year to get it all together. And to be honest with you, Kimberly, we had a hard time getting it published if folks on the family were great to come alongside us, because, you know, people were like all the publishers I land, you know, we've already heard your story, it's great and all that, but know that fantasies over. So we just need to, you know, it's a great idea, but you know, so we didn't know that we were going to have to publish it ourselves or whatever. And then folks came along and said, We love it. It's an extension, it's a sequel, you know, really to your story. And so that's kind of the that was kind of the genesis of and how it all came about.

Kimberly Holmes : 11:35

I love the way it's written because it opens with your dad Al, right? So it is sets this scene of like what your family had come through, and then what changed what happened but how because of what happened with your parents how that affected you, led you to do things you never thought that you might do. how that impacted Lisa how Lisa's past impacted her like you can start to see This spiderweb of how everything affects everything else, right? And then in then each chapters, these people, like you said, these people that you encounter that are again, just more of these spider webs that are coming off of your story, and it all brings together this beautiful picture of forgiveness, but I'm getting I'm getting ahead of myself, I have so many questions I want to ask.

Lisa Robertson : 12:28

I think it's important, Kimberly, if you're good, if you're gonna, if you're gonna try to understand somebody, I think you've got to know their past. I think you've got to know where they're coming from. Maybe a little bit of their history and what happened to them and what they've been through. Because if you don't know that, you don't understand why people react to things the way that they do. And so, I believe that you've got to, you've got to dive a little bit deeper into your relationship, and especially those that really bother and find those things off. Because you've got to come to a point where you will understand them. And that you say, you know what, I'm not any better than anybody else, you know, this person is not any better than I am, we all go through the sorry, pardon the French crap, you know, in our life, and we're all sinners. So we're all going to hurt one another. So you've got to, you've got to get to a point where you can understand what somebody else is going through, put yourself in their shoes and say, I get it. It might not it's not an excuse. It's a reason and sometimes we just have to understand the reasons why.

Kimberly Holmes : 13:47

One of the things Lisa, I loved about your, your telling of your story in here is it kind of starts and even if you were, you know, people just know about your marriage story about how you'd had affairs or and Have you almost divorced or separated all those things? Even as you say in this book desperate forgiveness, if you were to just start there and not go backwards to see, as you were just saying why that was happening, then people judge, right, they totally do. People might judge and say you can't ever trust Lisa again, don't go back to I'm sure there are people who said that in your marriage. Yeah. Right. But when you begin to peel back these layers and then Lisa, you go into the struggles with your relationship with your mom, how that affected you and impacted you the the sexual abuse that you had to endure and keep your mouth shut. How How did you put like, how did your journey go with this? Were was there just a day it all came together to you as to why you were feeling this way and doing these things? Or did it just take time to piecemeal it all together? Or did you know the whole time that that is what was affecting you? causing you to make some of these decisions you were making?

Lisa Robertson : 15:04

No, actually, we had no idea why either one of us made the decisions that we made until we went through, went to a Wonderful Counselor. I think everybody needs a counselor at some point in their life, just somebody that can guide them. And that's what a counselor does. They just guide they guide you to a point where you can understand things about your past and how your past and the decisions that were made for you, even when you're a child, the decisions that you made as a teenager, how all of that intermingles and it affects who you are as an adult. And I think that that's why we have to talk about that path because we need to understand where we came from, and more What the journey lies in what happened during the journey?

Al Robertson : 16:03

A lot of times to combat I think, it depends on the depth of the hurt in someone's life, obviously, what happened to Lisa was so traumatic and deep and, and secret is for so many years, you know, it was going to take, he was going to take some time for her to get to some place where she could look at that and see how they, you know, had that impact there. And then how it was impacting us how she viewed other men, as you'd be me, you know, and she'd kind of put me as or, you know, it was kind of a white knight or Savior. Which which, you know, sounds okay, until you realize there's only one and it's not, it's not your husband or your wife. And so I think part of that is the depth of hurt. That's why sometimes things are we always say now one of our mottos about forgiveness and aim small Miss small because, you know, we would rather deal with something before you know, it becomes so big that then it takes time to get Back to the depth of and so I think there's a lot of people walking around in relationships and their marriage. And they still have, you know, some old wounds and complains that they've just kind of shuttered away. And then it's impacting affecting how they're living their life now. And, and yet, they don't always make that link. So in Lisa's case, and same with your dad, it took a complete brokenness, and it got to the point where I've lost everything that matters to me. And so now I'm ready to figure out why. And for unfortunately, a lot of people have to go there. I have to go to the place that I'm about to lose everything in your dad's case that he'd already lost his family that he was about to lose his life. And then it was like, Okay, I've got to take a look. You know, I've got to figure out what what what is this hole that's in my heart in my soul that I cannot fill up with anything else, even though I keep trying to.

Kimberly Holmes : 17:58

How long Lisa And then I have the same question for you in a different way, Al. But how long did it take for you to get to the point where you could forgive your abuser? And then to forgive your mother?

Lisa Robertson : 18:14

Um, I would say probably, well, it took 35 years for me to be able to forgive my abuser. Because that's when I started counseling was whenever I was 35. And, you know, then I think probably a few years after that, although I knew my mother was not at fault for what happened to me. As a child, I thought, well, she should have known she, you know, she should have inquired. Now as a parent, and as a grandparent. I realized, you know that that wasn't the case that, you know, she really had had no idea and so I think probably you know, it took probably eight months of counseling before we ever totally got to the point where we said, Okay, it's time to forgive, we can do this, you know, and I think, you know, the forgiveness. It's an everyday thing. Because you have to wake up every day and decide if you're going to pick that burden back up, or if you're going to leave it at the front of the cross. And, you know, some days you pick it back up, you know, only to leave it you know, midway through the day and say, Okay, I can't deal with this anymore. But, but it's a steal, it's a day to day thing, you know, something might pop up about my mother, and I and I have to consciously say to myself, you forgave your mom. You know, that it's not about that, and or, you know, something will happen and I'm talking to some young woman who you know, was sexually assaulted as a child or are, you know, molested? And then I have to, you know, will come through my head about my uncle. And I'm like, No, I've already forgiven. You know, I can't pick that back up. So I would say, you know, it's an ongoing thing every day, but it took about eight months of counseling. Before I could get to the point and, and see my own sin in my life. I think that was another thing I had to see the season that I had also. And, you know, just through intensive counseling, that's probably about how long it took for me to say, All right, I'm ready to forgive.

Al Robertson : 20:42

Then I will say come back to that. Kimberly. See, our counselor was wonderful in the idea that she can she helped us see that because we had a forget it in the session. It was a it was a one of those, you know, watershed moments there in our path, you know, during that time, and this has been 21 years ago, and I still remember, she, there was an empty chair, she was brought into the room. And she wanted us to imagine him in that chair, which is very difficult for both of us. Because, you know, from laces perspective, he was a monster from my perspective, you know, I wanted to, you know, be the Lord's, you know, vengeance on it. And, and yet, she convinced us that the forgiveness wasn't about him because he wasn't asking for forgiveness. She's never even fully admitted anything. But the forgiveness was for us to be released because this curse, you know, had had gripped Lisa for most of our life and now me with it, because of so that's, that's a big point in the book about that. The forgiveness that you offer is as much about yourself as it is about the other person, obviously, you hope to restore the relationship and go forward. In our case, we don't want a relationship with this person. And as far as I know, in this life, it'll never be restored, but we needed the freedom from that and so so many people are held captive by that So it was interesting because it's kind of ironic because we talk about our mom, we did our first book. We really we, the writer, of course, is just hearing the story. And it's raw. I love the way you described our story. And so when we read the first version, when Lisa was, you know, tell him about her mom and her in our upbringing. We do with each other, and we realize, oh, my goodness, this is we're gonna have to soften this because, you know, our mom's still alive. And, you know, this is, you know, this is gonna be bad. And so we solving it as much as we could, and it still were truthful. And yet, even then, her mom was livid. I mean, she hated it, because, you know, she just didn't want you know, she would rather never talk about anything. And so that actually, our first book is what then led to a really division between Lisa and her mom between me and her mom. And so until she got sick, really to the point, you know, where Lisa stepped back into take care of her. She didn't want to realize she it was it was awful. It was terrible. And so but Lisa and I had to make a decision I mean we are we going to live this forgiveness out and so we both had to make that decision. So it's really about just a few weeks before she passed away was getting where we would have to lace would have to take her to the ER but they couldn't do anything. She had COPD and they would give her like a steroid thing for treatment and then breathing treatment she'd be a little better but she wasn't getting any better. And so Lisa was gonna be stuck up there. We just sat down in church on a Sunday. And you know, she gets a call the ambulence is picking your mom up so and I knew that that was an afternoon for Lisa sitting at the ER and at that point, I had not been doing much with her mom because it was just kind of more peaceful for everybody if I didn't and but i thought you know, this is gonna be sitting there all day and a mom will just be out because of the whatever they give her to calm her down. And so I just went up to sit with Lisa and so we're sitting there together working on a computer work in our schedule, and and her mom wakes up and she looks over and sees me there because I wasn't there when she went to sleep. And it is this class. That's a card I must say it just like she said it. So when she said she looked over at me and kind of has a scowl look on her face and she said, Do you think you'd Forgive me for all the hell I put you through? I mean, that was her line just literally out of asleep. And it kind of took me back you know that she asked me that. And I said, Well, sure I already have as well you forgive me for any hurts that I brought to you? She said yeah, I reckon so. I feel good. And that was it. Like it was a like a you know, we didn't hug and you know, we didn't puppies didn't run out and you know, hearts go through the room. It was kind of our classic way that she and I communicated but that was a huge moment for her and for me because it was just a reminder like Lisa said that you know, look, I'm the one that's Priester funeral and and I'm the one that had to look at her brother Elise's abuser who was in the audience, you know, and so, you know, in moments like that, so when you decide, you know, hat Did I really forget We're not and and he was acting like a jerk. And so you know, that whole day I was just in prayer, I had people praying over me, you know, to be God's man to to live the forgiveness that we extended, you know, and it's sometimes it's hard when you have to face something like that

Kimberly Holmes : 25:17

So hard. I was reading the book, there's specific situations that that came to my mind the harder things in my life I've had to forgive. And I said, you know, this past year, it's all kind of come to a head for me. When back when I was 12, or starting when I was 12. There was a person in my life who began sexually harassing me and saying things they should not say to a 12 year old. And I never said anything about it to anyone and then just carried it with me and it was a person who was close to my family, so they never really went away. And it wasn't until You know, throughout my several years of marriage to my husband, every, every so often I would talk about this, like, I was so angry about it. And he would say, you need to forgive him. And I was like, I have that in my mind. Because in my mind, I was like, I don't want to think about it. I don't even want to go back there. I don't even you know, I don't, I really didn't want to address it. But this past year, everything came to such a head where it's like, you couldn't ignore it anymore. And so even as this began as the book begins, and it talks about this desperate need for forgiveness, and it can look different in everyone's life, right, like, a person who's done something and they need desperately to be to be forgiven. Or, in my case, while Yes, I had done done things, like the bigger thing for me was I am living in a state of anger and resentment and hate really, towards this person, and it was hurting me as a person to keep carrying that with me. And so I was like, I've got out how in the world to forgive and it was one of the hardest things I've had to do.

Lisa Robertson : 27:07

Yeah you were living you are living as a victim. And not as a victor. Once you extend that forgiveness you become a victor. And what they did to you can no longer harm you. You're not being held hostage, you know? My the memories and not being able to tell anybody and so but a victim mentality. I mean, we see that every day on the news. It'll kill you. It will. I mean, it will drive you insane. Yeah. And so you are living as a victim. Since you were 12 years old. And now you're living as a victor since you have forgiven this person you will use that hurt now to help other people. Whereas before all that hurt did was hurt you and make you bitter and angry.

Kimberly Holmes : 28:02

And that's as I was reading all of these stories in this book, I couldn't help but think how much more and this is one of the questions I have for you all. It's hard, like it has to be hard to to think about it to talk about it. But is it so much easier and have you reframed it, that every time you speak about it and talk about what's happened, that it that it really is more of this like invigorating Look, what we have done, look what God has done through us, look, what Look, the amazing things that ended up coming from this. Do you think that's helped heal you and helps you forgive even more?

Al Robertson : 28:39

No doubt about it. And I think that's why because, you know, we've been doing this 20 years now, and telling our story, and it also includes abortion. I mean, there's, you know, there's a lot of bad stuff, you know, that in our past, lives has passed, but you know, when we're able to show and talk about what God has done over that process and then what he has allowed us to do in the book, we talked about a couple that had a situation as bad or worse than ours. And we walked through that with them and they were able to find forgiveness and now they're leading our marriage ministry here at our church. We just did a Lutheran livestream, you know, during the man Coronavirus, and we just guessed it on their live stream. And, you know, every time I'm with them, I just Marvel because they basically took over for us when God kind of put us out on the national stage to do things around the country. We couldn't do as much locally here and you know, we love our community and our church. But God raised them up to do just what we were talking about. And yes, the way I compared to I say it's like a it's like a wound that that healed or like a surgical wound or whatever. And then you have that hard, you know, scar tissue that's there. And so we feel like they keeps you from reentering that spot and we feel like that's what way we are spirits. Like, every time we help someone, every time we speak every time we do a podcast like yours, you know, what we're doing is we're putting another layer of that of that good healthy scar tissue. Because we will never forget the when, when ever forget what it was like to go through average, but we need to because that was just talking to a guy from Alabama. His wife left him and in his two weeks removed from it well, of course I remember what what that was like, but if I don't remember that, and I'm not able to tell him and give him some hope, then in that moment in that crisis in those early days and weeks and months, when you go to sleep thinking about it, you wake up thinking about it. Someone needs to hear that you can get past this and it can be put back together. It may not but it can be and I use your parents a lot is that you know even if even if you divorce, I mean sometimes, you know, God can still work it out for people and and your results if it hadn't been for that you wouldn't be here again, Lisa. Praise God for that, right?

Kimberly Holmes : 31:02

Absolutely. In those in those moments so you know you said we we try forget you can't forget you talked about that even at the end of your book. And do y'all ever get two points now even though you have done the hard work, the forgiveness you speak on national stage as you are all about this, but do you ever have those moments where that hurt comes up again and you're starting to live in fear of what if it happens again? What if, you know Lisa, were to have another affair? What if something else were to happen that you know, in my family that that would just cause so much hurt? Do you ever live with the fear of the hurt?

Lisa Robertson : 31:44

Well, I actually do not live in fear about happening again. I think one thing is because when you put on the full armor of God, I didn't have the full armor of God on either Really even have a relationship with God. But I believe that whenever you put on that full armor, you're going to stumble, you're going to fall, but you're not ever going to just fall into a pit. As long as you're putting in the words that come from God, as long as you're studying his word, you know, reading things that have a positive twist to them, you know, to teach you how to live and how to live a Christian life better than what you did yesterday. You know? And so I do I do not live in fear I, you know, I don't live in fear of, of Alan doing that. He's not that kind of person, although it could happen to anybody. But still, I it's, I do not. I really Kimberly, I do not live in fear of anything. You know. Sometimes, you know, I pray for the Lord to put a hedge of protection. I do that Every night, please put a hedge of protection around my kids and my grandkids You know, I'm certainly that if I had a fear that would be it, you know that something would happen to the room. But as far as our relationship, I have no fear whatsoever. I feel as though I can tell Alan anything. I feel I feel like he can tell me anything. And you know, whatever it is, we're going to get past it. And somebody in my life now is it's just totally different. I live so long in fear because when you live with secrets, they're almost like time bomb. And you never really know when they're gonna detonate. Yeah, and so there are no secrets anymore. There. There's, you know, the past is the past. We have gotten past the past and we can't change it. All we can do is is live glorified from now. On. So I really have no fear.

Al Robertson : 34:03

I think honesty and truth are have definitely been the two factors. And we talk about that a lot in the book, obviously, because we live with so, so much dishonesty and not being truthful, both of us early in our marriage, that those two things are just like a light that shines on darkness. And it really keeps fear at a minimum. And for me personally, I mean, certainly it was a lot harder early to trust Lisa and I knew would they. And that's why I just had to really double down in my own heart with the Almighty and just say, Look, I'm gonna doubt I mean, there's, you know, because I don't trust her at all, but I trust you. And I know that you reveal this to me. And so that was how I was able to navigate those early weeks and months when we weren't together. Or the first time I had to go on a mission trip or something, to be able to deal with that because it was you know, it was very hard. So I get it when people say and they talk About how hard it is to trust again, I understand completely. But I'm telling you We're an example that over time of living truth, then that becomes much easier as you go. And I would say we're whereas healthy at 21 years as we've been since we started 21 years not that I'll add yeah 36 years this year.

Kimberly Holmes : 35:22

Here are my key pies takeaways for this week's episode, part one of desperate forgiveness with Al and Lisa Robertson. There's so much that I love about everything that we talked about, because I so understand how hard forgiveness can be. It can be easy to forgive the smaller things in life. You know, when we let those build up, it can be even more difficult. But it's those bigger things, those mountains that we don't want to have to even focus on. That can become incredibly hard to forgive after They're waiting so long to address the forgiveness. I'll talk more on next week's podcast on Part Two with them about how difficult that has been for me and something that has happened in my life. But we even heard Lisa start talking about that today talking about how long it took her before she was really able to forgive the person who sexually abused her. That's a huge violation of, of innocence, of trust of privacy. And I can totally understand how it can take so long to even want to look at it because there's so much of your identity, your feelings, your thoughts about yourself, your beliefs about yourself that you have to start addressing. When it comes to forgiving. It can be that you're forgiving someone else for something that they've done to you or maybe it's that you don't even know how to forgive yourself for something that you have done. Whichever one it is, here's my first takeaway for you, I encourage you to look at it from a different perspective. Take the situation that you are in the situation that is so hard for you to forget. And try and see it from a different perspective. Maybe you're trying to see it from the person who has hurt us perspective, if that is fitting, maybe you're trying to see it from your perspective, but maybe removed from you. Maybe you need to look at it from an outsider looking in. Like in Lisa's case, we wouldn't want to look at it from the perspective of the person who did the sexual abuse because that is not helpful. But looking at it from a family member who loves her and seeing what they would say to Lisa about what happened to her in that type of situation can help bring perspective to how you're feeling and the freedom that lies on the other side of this from you. Imagine if we had had someone in her life that she felt comfortable enough to go to when she was younger to talk about this. And that person had been able to tell her that she was loved that it was not her fault, and that she was not dirty for what had happened to her. What change could that have made about how she felt about herself and the decisions that she chose to make from that point going forward? Or maybe it's a person that you are struggling to forgive? Because of things they've said to you ways that they've stabbed you in the back things that they've lied to you about. And when you look at it from just your perspective, it can be hard to forgive, because we see that person as evil. We see them as not worthy of forgiveness. We see them as an offender as opposed to seeing them as another broken person. I can't tell you how many times in my life My husband has said or done something to hurt me. There was the for you. years of our marriage that he was hiding an addiction from me. And I will never forget. The first day I found out when he came to me he came clean about everything. One of the first thoughts that went through my head, of course was How could he, I've given him multiple chances. I've given him multiple opportunities to tell me the truth. I've asked him point blank, I have been an amazing wife to him, right? Like I'm missing all of these things. They're just my perspective. What I failed to do immediately was to see it from his perspective. Why was he struggling with the addiction in the first place? What was it from his past that he was trying to numb because it was too hard to deal with it? And he tried to lose himself in the feelings of his addiction. When we change our thought and begin to see the person who has hurt us, and see their life from a different perspective, to have empathy on them, then that is when we can begin to forgive. Forgiveness, I believe needs to happen no matter what. Because it frees us It takes us from being that victim into being the victor. But even more than that, it is what redeems relationships. It is what can bring us back together. And even for relationships that don't need to have reconciliation because it's not safe or because of whatever reason it might happen. It still frees you to be able to forgive, to have empathy, and to be able to address every other relationship in your life, having the freedom of that forgiveness. The third key Paes takeaway is this. Tell the truth. As simple as that may seem, one of the things I loved that Lisa said was when you live with secrets, they are like time bombs. You never really know when they are going to detonate. That may be a secret that you're keeping of something you've done a way that you've hurt someone else, something you're hiding from someone that you're hoping one day they never find out. Or it may be a secret of how hurt you are, that you haven't told the person in your life, maybe a sibling, maybe a parent, maybe a spouse, that you are struggling with something that they've done to you. If you don't address those issues as they come up. It is only going to turn you into a ticking time bomb. And you might never know when you will explode. Now I'm not saying that every time someone in your life does something that hurts or makes you angry that you turn it back on them. And you say yes, and you begin to tell them everything you feel about them in the moment. That's not it at all. I believe we can approach these conversations with grace and with poise while telling the other person how we feel getting it all out there on the table, getting through the conflict with each other, because you believe and value that relationship so much that you want it to be stronger and healthier on the other side, not done in a way that it is that is attacking, not done in a way that is vengeful, but in a way that is full of speaking truth in love to the people in your life that matter to you that you want to keep in your life. Next week, we're going to talk about even more having to do with forgiveness. And the reason I wanted to spend so much time on this topic is because I know from firsthand experience, what unforgiveness can do to you. The way it can cause your bones to ache, the way that it can seep into every part of your life. Cause anger caused stress cause loss of sleep, so many things that unfold Goodness can do in friends I have found freedom on the other side of forgiveness. I believe in this more than I ever have before. And next week we will talk even more about how to forgive, even when it's hard. We'll see you next week.