It Starts With Attraction
Revealing secrets on how to become the most attractive you can be Physically, Intellectually, Emotionally and Spiritually (or as us insiders call it...the PIES). Hosted by Kimberly Beam Holmes and her husband, Rob Holmes, they dive into new and interesting topics released every Tuesday morning.
It Starts With Attraction
Getting Past Guilt with Dr. Joe Beam
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Are you wanting to know how to get past the guilt you are feeling? If you are feeling guilty or know someone who is overwhelmed with guilt, this podcast is for you. In this episode, Dr. Joe Beam breaks down his own story of getting past guilt and shares how to accept forgiveness.
Dr. Joe Beam shares why initially feeling guilt is a good thing. After listening to this podcast, you will understand what to do about guilt, how to move past it, accept forgiveness, and talk to someone who is overwhelmed with guilt.
Today’s Speaker - Dr. Joe Beam
An internationally known and respected sexologist and authority on love, marriage and sex. He received his PhD from the University of Sydney. He is the founder and chair of Marriage Helper based in Tennessee, just south of Nashville.
He has designed and developed courses, workshops and seminars to help troubled marriages for over two decades. He has been seen on nationwide media and spoken to countless couples through live seminars, dedicated radio programs and books. Today he dedicates most of his time to researching and developing new ways to help couples in crisis. Old ways don’t always work in today’s human environment. You’ll agree that times have changed since your parents were married and your issues are not the same. Our approach to bringing back the passion and energy in a marriage is dynamic and effective.
Saving marriages is not an occupation for Dr. Beam. It is a mission – a mission that has consumed his heart for decades. “My original goal was to reduce divorce in this country by ten percent over a ten year period,” explains Beam. “I came to realize that we couldn’t do this by only helping marriages in trouble. We had to educate couples to change the way they live so their marriage could be all it could be.” This type of broader thinking and the methodology used to deliver the message is having a huge impact on families today. By reaching beyond the mind and into the heart and soul of men and women, love finds new ways to allow couples to communicate and create a relationship that is aware but not conducive to divorce.
Seeing the results of his mission in multiplied thousands has not only strengthened Joe’s resolve but added even more momentum to the mission. Today, the popular idea that divorce is a fact of life is being challenged vigorously. Saving marriages is not a job, it’s an all-consuming passion and every marriage saved is a testimony that the mission can be accomplished.
Website: https://marriagehelper.com
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Kimberly Beam Holmes has applied her master's degree in psychology for over ten years, acting as the CEO of Marriage Helper & CEO and Creator of PIES University, being a wife and mother herself, and researching how attraction affects relationships. Her videos, podcasts, and following reach over 500,000 people a month who are making changes and becoming the best they can be.
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There's a parable that I've heard my dad use in sermons and in speeches for my whole entire life, where he talks about a young boy who worked on a family farm and his responsibility was to take care of the dog. And when he was a young child, maybe 567 years old, he forgot to take care of the dog one day, and something ended up happening to the dog and the dog ended up either running away or dying, and the dog was no longer there to help care for the family farm. And this young boy felt so guilty about what he had done, that he went to his father, he expressed how sorry, he was, he couldn't believe he had done it. And his father said, It's okay, son, we'll get through it. It was just a dog. You're okay, we're okay. We'll move forward. But from that point forward at every birthday that this son had, at his college graduation, his high school, and his high school graduation at his college graduation, when he got married, all he could remember was the guilty felt of how he had let his parents down, how he had not done his job the way that he should have, and how sorry, he was for what he had done wrong. To which every time the father would respond and say, son, I have forgiven you. But the son couldn't feel it. And because he didn't feel forgiven, he was overcome with guilt. And he wasn't able to move on from that. In today's episode, I am joined by Dr. Joe beam, who is not only an amazing man, but also the original teller of that story. To me, he is my father. And every time that I heard my dad tell that story, it would always be in a speech or sermon surrounding the need for forgiveness for ourselves, accepting forgiveness for something that we've done from other people from God, or even just from ourselves. There's probably something in your life that you feel guilty about. We all have something, maybe it's something from your distant past or your recent past. But whatever it might be. Guilt is not a place that you need to stay. It is a necessary emotion and Dr. beam and I or Dad and I talk about what that looks like and why it is necessary and what the purpose of guilt is in our lives. But it's not a place you need to stay for your whole life. In this episode, we talk about the need for it, how to move past feeling guilty, and how to live in complete freedom of forgiveness. Hey, my name is Kimberly beam Holmes and this is it starts with attraction, where we discuss how to become the most attractive that you can be physically, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually. Or as this insiders call it, the pies, you can become more attractive to others and most importantly to yourself. We will teach you how let's dive in. So a couple of weeks ago, I asked my audience questions that they had what what did they want to know more about? What were they struggling with? And one of the most common responses I got back was people asking, How do I overcome my own guilt? And how can I forgive myself for things that I've done? And when I saw those questions, I thought I know the perfect person to bring on and talk about that subject and answer that question because he's literally written the book on it. Dr. Joe beam
Dr. Joe Beam :The book's been out for a while. When it first came out. It was called forgiven forever. That's when it was in hardback. And now in softback it's called getting past guilt. And yes, I wrote it many years ago.
Kimberly Holmes :What's so cool about how this is even coming up is you had your own experiences with getting past your own guilt forgiving yourself, and I definitely want us to get into that. But one of the one of the things that sparked this question and a lot of my listeners was a couple of weeks ago, I have Al and Lisa Robertson on the podcast talking about their book, desperate forgiveness. And of course, you are one of the chapters in that book.
Dr. Joe Beam :Yeah, I'm just happy. They're really good people, as you know, you know them. They're just awesome human beings. And that was happy to be a part of their story. I'm helping them get to where they are today. But basically through the book, you're Talking about, it wasn't so much my dealing with them directly it was them. Actually Al in working through the book you just referenced that that's now called getting past guilt. That was a benefit to them.
Kimberly Holmes :All right, that's true. Well, I love it. And I love how all of it ends up working together. But when we're just thinking about approaching this, this question, the when people are asking it when they're searching for this, you know, they are desperate. How do you help someone understand when they come to you? And they say, How do I forgive myself for what I've done? What do you what would you say to them?
Dr. Joe Beam :Typically, the first thing is to try to help them understand that guilt actually has a good purpose. That guilt in the psychological, even spiritual realm, if you will, serves the same purpose that pain serves in the physical world. For example, if you could feel no physical pain, then you'd be in trouble. Because people who can't feel pain, if they would have to touch something that was hot and could burn them, they wouldn't even realize it, they'd wind up doing great damage to themselves. And there are people out there who really can't feel pain, they have certain conditions where they can't, and they're in jeopardy, because pain in the physical realm says something's wrong, fix it. In the same sense, guilt works in the, in the psychological, emotional, and like I said, even spiritual realm, it says something wrong, fix it. People who don't feel guilty, who never feel guilt. These are the people that we want them calling sociopaths or psychopaths. And these are people that do a lot of damage to a lot of people because they don't ever feel guilty about what they do. And so the first thing I would say Kimberly is, okay, be happy that you feel guilt, it actually says something about you. It says that you do care about other people, you care about the consequences of your own behavior. You care how you affect others, now you affect yourselves, and how you affect yourself singular, I should say. And in that sense, rather than lamenting the fact that you feel guilt. Rejoice in the fact because it says something really good about you. So then we move to the next step, which would be okay, then what do we do about it?
Kimberly Holmes :Right, because it has to be one thing to feel guilty, but continue doing whatever it is you feel guilty. And then another option would be to stop doing it. Turn do something different. So where do you think people are when they feel guilty? I can't think of a better way to put it. But I don't mean it this way, a bad person? What if they feel guilty, but keep doing the thing that they feel guilty about?
Dr. Joe Beam :Well, it was a book came out back I think it was in 1970s. And the name of the book was Whatever happened to sin. And it was an interesting book, because the guy who was a he was a religious man, but he was really a philosopher of great renown. And as he wrote, he said, we're doing something wrong to culture and society. And he didn't write his an American, he was actually a European. And it was running about this. He said, You know, when people do things that cause harm to other people, or cause harm to say those things that they would heretofore have felt guilt about. We have developed a kind of psychology of saying, well, don't feel guilty, whatever makes you happy is okay. Even if society says this is violating our principles by which we live, even if other people say what you're doing is hurting me. Don't listen to them pay no attention. Well, you just do what makes you happy. And his premise was if you keep telling people, things that they're doing that are clearly wrong, in the sense that they really do damage, they really do haunt them, and tell them no, no, no, no, that's something that you should be guilty about at all. Then after a while they become hardened to it. It's like, well, no other people think that's a bad thing. But I know it's okay, because I'm doing it and it makes me happy. And in that sense of bad people, like we just talked about, that's how they replicate more and more destructive behavior, I will refuse to feel guilty, because as long as I like what I'm doing, who cares how it affects other people, who cares what they think, who cares what they feel, who cares what harm it does to them. And so one way that people have tried to eradicate guilt, is by doing away with a whole system of right and wrong, that what's right is what I want. And that's it, period, there is no wrong as long as I want to do it. And so some people have dealt with guilt in that fashion. But by so doing, have become in essence, sociopaths, if not by the clinical definition of the word we've used in psychology, at least a social sociopath. What I mean is, nobody matters but me. And therefore, I don't feel guilty about whatever the heck I do to you. For example, really, I just posted him I like to put memes on my Facebook page, because I've tried to avoid things that are pain all day every day. And so recently it was something about write something, what is one thing that you learned from your dad? Hundreds of people responded to that. And typically pithy things that were very nice but scattered all through there were people talking about their dads who had hurt them terribly. dads who didn't love them dads who weren't there for them, dads, who talked them about the very experiences and examples of the fathers lived, that life really was terrible, and evil and all those kinds of things. And you think, well, how can I dad do that to a kid? Well, if that's the case, if these people are talking about what they feel experiences with their fathers, these them would be fathers who are those spiritual sociopaths or social sociopaths, I should say, like, I'm going to do what I want to do, no matter how to thank you. And therefore, while the dad may not have felt guilt, by being that mean, terrible person who ignored his kids, and had nothing to do with him, or when he did was always slandering and putting them down, he may have felt guilty about that. But it definitely the damage to the kids. And so trying to do away with guilt by saying whatever I feel is right, is destructive. And as a culture as a society worldwide, we are reaping the consequences of that. And so I would definitely say, don't try to get past your guilt, by doing away with the system of right and wrong. Now, the other thing you talked about was or don't get rid of your guilt by doing what you're doing, that's not good, so long, that eventually your guilt just becomes hardened anyway, that you really didn't change your system of what's right and wrong, per se. But you just changed you. Like, I know it's wrong, but I don't care. Because this is what I do. And it's a little bit different. When I'm just saying it's not like Well, whatever makes me happy is right, at least people know what they're doing it wrong. But they've done it so long, they become hardened to it to the point where it doesn't affect them anymore. And that would be another way I would say is the improper way, not the good way to deal with guilt, because it still leads to destructive behavior. So both those things we've mentioned so far, continue to hurt it hurt other people and ultimately hurt the person that's doing it. So handling guilt that way, or either of those ways, is really destructive to humanity, and ultimately to the person doing it.
Kimberly Holmes :So if this is so what if this is a family member or a spouse or a child that you see involved in this destructive behavior? Is there any way to get them to feel their guilt in a way that they will change? Or do you just have to watch it happen?
Dr. Joe Beam :Well, okay, let's say it's a child, hopefully, to begin with, you've been teaching systems of right and wrong, what we call the leaf some days. So that the child has been growing up with a concept of these are the right things to do. These are the wrong things to do. Hopefully, we just started there. But if we're past that stage, you know, here's somebody doing something that's ultimately destructive. You can't control them unless you imprison them. What I mean is, the only way I can stop you from doing this is if I lock you up in some fashion now that could literally be in jail. Or it could be I put so much control over you that feel that you feel you are in prison. And seldom does that turn out well. Because the other person then becomes more rebellious and more likely to keep doing the things that are harmful and destructive. If anything is going to work, I think it would have to be the following, that somehow you help them understand the damage that they're doing to other people. Unless they are truly sociopaths. Hopefully, if they begin to comprehend the damage they're doing to other people, but their behaviors, they would begin to want to stop those behaviors, and then help them understand the damage they're doing to themselves. But typically, you're not going to accomplish it just by making those statements like you're hurting other people or what you're doing, you're gonna read witches, so someday it's gonna be bad for you. And just making those kind of statements typically don't believe you. They ignore you, like you not stand with if you could find a way to help them actually see, to visualize, to understand to comprehend, that's when hopefully, again, unless they're just sociopathic inside, hopefully, is when they begin to think, wait a minute, I've got to stop that look what that's doing to you. And the better, the quicker I should say the quicker that they can realize that the more likely they are to stop the behavior because of they've been doing it for less as a husband or wife, for example. And let's see, she becomes involved with another guy. And it begins to tear her husband apart. If up front rather than chastising her yelling at her accusing her those kinds of things, if somehow he were to communicate in such a way as to say, Can you see the pain? I'm thinking? I don't mean whining, begging and pleading, those things typically don't communicate it will either. But can I help you understand? Can I tell you what I feel? Can we talk about these things, then if he does that early enough, then maybe she'll stop that behavior that's hurting him. Unfortunately, if she gets involved in it too long, too far. And then he started revealing the kind of problems pain detriments doing to him, she may be so immersed in the new activity, that she doesn't care that she becomes numb to him. So kind of a long answer. But the short version is, I think, the most effective way is when another person finally comprehends what they're doing, in terms of how to picture the people in themselves, and really grasps that.
Kimberly Holmes :Hmm. So what about the person who's in it? And whatever they're doing feels better than the guilt? How if you were talking to them, if it was your best friend? How would you help them do the right thing?
Dr. Joe Beam :Well, can you give me an example? So maybe I can illustrate better? Like, what kind of a situation would you be describing?
Kimberly Holmes :Yeah, no, that's a good question. So if there's a person who, let's say that they have been gambling, they've been addicted to gambling, they've spent the afford the house fortune on it right? There just in it, and they do feel guilty. But the, the urge inside of them is so much greater than the guilt that they feel, but they don't want to. So let's say that they really want to stop. They don't know how to stop because the feeling they're chasing is greater inside of them than that feeling of the guilt they have. So So now, you're talking to them? How, what would you say to them? And let's say they're not hurting you? Because, you know, you're not being personally affected by what they're doing? How do you help them to see that they be more sensitive to the guilt?
Dr. Joe Beam :Well, in that case, if they really don't want to do it, but they keep doing it, because it feels so good. I think that probably at least in this country, and maybe worldwide, but I'm thinking in terms of America, that probably the best health for those people would be one of the 12 step groups, that if and I've done this with people, you know, here's a guy that's drinking and it's causing some problems with his wife from causing some problems with him. Yet he still ends up drinking, even though he knows is causing difficulties. Now anybody got like that? And I've done occasions, Hey, how about going with me to a meeting and I take them to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. And and they have a deal they are and I'm assuming all a I'm assuming all 12 step groups at the same kind of thing. Where that if they know there's somebody there for the first time, they actually changed the way they're doing the program. And it's like, they kind of give their Well, for lack of a better word testimonies, so that that person can start saying, Wait a minute, these people are like me, they understand. They've been where I've been. And when it comes to a person who keeps repetitively doing something they know is doing damage. They like it when they do it, but they feel badly about and want to stop it. Typically speaking in America, the best solution for that is going to be one of the 12 step groups like Alcoholics Anonymous sexaholics, anonymous, Overeaters Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, etc, etc. And people can bet on those groups and get online Google it.
Kimberly Holmes :You know, this is this is a different type of situation. But one of the things that I've been hearing more and more, especially the past six months, are people who have mom guilt. Are you familiar with this?
Dr. Joe Beam :Not by that phrase? No.
Kimberly Holmes :So where they are working, now they're working, a lot of them are working at home, and they don't feel like they're present for their children or they're not present enough compared to other moms and things like that. And so they have this amount this you know, mom guilt of I'm not doing a good enough job. I'm not the mom that I should be. And I think people in different positions feel that I just hear it a lot in regards to moms, but men probably feel it, you know, if they're working all the time and not home with their kids, or people who are single and they're trying to climb the corporate ladder and they feel guilty that they don't have a social life. So there's that kind of guilt to where it may not be that someone's doing something destructive. But they feel guilty about the choices that they've made. And they're wondering if they could have done better? Is that the same kind of guilt that we've been talking about?
Dr. Joe Beam :I don't think so. The kind of guilt I've been talking about so far, it's when you know, you're doing something that is harmful or destructive to you or to other people. In this case, I guess there's a possibility you're actually doing harm to other people. One of the people again, back to that meme I posted, what's one thing you learn from your dad, one person posted never to be there. That's what I was never to be there. I'm just talking to somebody that we both know very well. And the other day, and she was talking about how that her father was never there for her so that behavior could be destructive or harmful to people. In that case, I think they have to make some kind of analysis. Okay, maybe you do the old Ben Franklin thing, you draw a line on a piece of paper, and on one side you write, okay, here are the benefits if I do this, and on the other side, these are the the cons. So the pros and cons. And maybe people will make a decision, Hmm, maybe I need a different job that doesn't make as much money, but I will be there for my children. But those are things that had to be done on an individual case by case basis. Are there people who ignore their kids, when when I was younger, and traveling all across America speaking for all kinds of events, I was gone way too much, way too much. And, now I look back and wish that I hadn't been I wish that I could go back and spend time with my kids now that that didn't spend with them, then I think it's better off for somebody when they're in the middle of that to come to those realizations and make that balance, then, you know, to get you know, 149 years old like I am, and then look back and wish you hadn't done it. So it could lead to destructive guilt. But that is not typically the kind of guilt I'm referring to so far.
Kimberly Holmes :But it still serves a similar purpose and the fact that it there's a feeling inside of you, if something's not right, let me re evaluate,
Dr. Joe Beam :there you go. And that's the value of guilt, something's wrong, fix it. Now, if you don't fix the guilt, well think about it. Now in comparison to physical pain, again, people who don't get help for their physical pain, who can't find a way to handle it, become debilitated. Who are constantly in pain become physically debilitated. People who are constantly in guilt, become debilitated. There's, you know, it's like I've got to deal with it. Somehow, I've got to get past this. And if they don't, it will literally debilitate them emotionally, mentally and many other ways as well.
Kimberly Holmes :So what about people who have done things that they have heard other people the decisions they've made, whether it's gambling, an addiction of some kind, and affair, they've hurt people? How do they move past that guilt? And can they or does it always stay, to some extent,
Dr. Joe Beam :they can move past that guilt? Of course, the first thing we would say is, if you're gonna try to get past the guilt, or move past the guilt, stop doing the thing. That's where, okay, I don't know how I can't Well, there are various specialties out there that can help you. For example, you know, the organization we work for marriage helper, we've helped many people be able to stop their affairs and get back to their marriages and put them back together. So you know, people like us exist that can help them do that. If it's the drinking, they've got Alcoholics Anonymous, if it's the drugs, they've got Narcotics Anonymous, etc. So stop, stop. That's number one, stop it, and then find the people who can help you stop it. And don't think that it's going to happen just like that, you know, you're going to need some help to be able to do it. Alright, once that has happened, the next thing that I typically tell people is okay, accept the fact that it did. If you're spending your time thinking, Oh, I wish I could have those 10 years back or I could wish I could have those 10 days back or whatever it might be living in the past, lamenting Oh, if only if only that's doing nobody any good, especially you and if you're going to be able to deal with the guilt, in addition to finding a way to help you stop doing the thing or not might not even be over except the fact that you did it. Don't deny that and don't try to blame anything on anybody else. That's your fault if you really want to deal with the guilt accept responsibility for your own actions. Because if I'm not accepting responsibility Well yeah, I know I did that but if my wife and only or Yeah, no, I did that. But you know if my dad hadn't been an alcoholic, or Yeah, no, I did that but but but I don't think you're gonna be able to find within you what you're looking for to be able to get past the guilt because you know, deep inside, that you're avoiding your own way. sponsibility you know that you're blaming other people now might put the alcoholic dad have contributed to it, might the wife get contributed? Yeah, sure. But in essence, by the way that they talk about it, they're not accepting the own responsibility. And if you're gonna find peace within, you've got to accept that it happened. And except your responsibilities that didn't happen. And then to the degree where it makes sense. And this is actually part of a 12 step program, you make reconciliation, you make up for things you do at home. But when it makes sense to do atonement, what I mean by that is, sometimes people do more damage by going trying to make things right. And, you know, no, what you really need to do now is just, if there is something you can do to make up for it, go ahead. But don't think that's gonna make your guilt go away. Just the fact that you made up for it, I stole your car, take your car back, therefore, I'm not going to feel guilty again, not necessarily. But if I stole your car, take it back. That's right step in being able to get past feeling guilty. And so whatever atonement you can do, that makes sense. But like, for example, this one woman said, I'm just gonna need to tell my best friend that I slept with her husband, this was years afterwards. And I said, Why? She said, because, you know, I just need to do with my guilt. And I said, so you want to throw her into turmoil, tear her marriage apart. So you can quit feeling guilty, that that's not a tournament. That's not thinking about her at all just about you and begged her not to do it. And she did it anyway. And sure enough, destroyed the other marriage. So when you do the atonement, if you do the atonement, and then do what makes sense. And in the process to the people that it matters to and that you need to do this, you make confession, you tell them, I did it, I'm sorry. And because the more you try to hide it, the worse it's gonna get. And if you try to lie about it, it's going to get even worse. And so I think part of the process is you just make confession. As much as makes sense, you do make confession, you tell people what you need to do, again, in the case I just gave you I think that was wrong for her to do it to that woman. But, you know, we had many marriage problems back in the past, that was an idea. I actually divorced her, when often lived a terrible lifestyle for three years, ask her if she would take me back after those three years. And she did. And so I didn't try to hide anything from her. It's like, okay, part of being able to deal with the guilt, you see, not just from her part of being able to forgive me. But if I want to feel healed, to use that word from that guilt, but I know that you really don't know what I did. In other words, I tell you, just a little bit, and I had the rest of it, and you say I forgive you, there's still a part inside of me thinking, I still feel guilty, because she doesn't really know what happened. I lied to her and deceived her. And that's why I think confession is good for the soul, the truth shall set you free. Now, that's not all of the process is just kind of the hem of the garment there. But going through all those kinds of things, and then accepting forgiveness when it's given to you. Sometimes people want to keep beating themselves up, like I need to be punished more. You're being too sweet to me being too kind to me. When, when really, once you've told them and you've been honest about it, you don't have to go into all the gory details, but you've been honest about it. And if the other person were to say, I forgive you accept that believe that rather than thinking No, no, no, you've got to beat me up more for this. And so part of finding peace within is accepting the fact that other people can get past what I've done. Some won't. But I accept that too. And the ones who will I accept the fact that they forgiven me. And then you start seeing yourself not as the person who did those things. But as somebody different now as a new person, if you will. And sometimes Kimberley people have trouble doing that, because they still find themselves occasionally wanting to do that other thing again. So for example, I finally get sober. But when I get stressed, I find myself wanting to drink, oh, it's build must be the bad knee, I must be no good at all. The fact that you will occasionally have those desires again, doesn't mean that you haven't changed. It doesn't mean that you're not on the right track. You can be on the right track. And still those things occasionally come up again. So rather than writing yourself often thinking you're no good. Choose to see yourself as the new person, the one that has learned better. Well, I'm kind of going off on tangents now. So a lot of it involves Do this, but those are some of the things that are key.
Kimberly Holmes :Those are all so good and, and some of them even just take, there's a fine line between a couple of them, right? Because we were talking about confession, but then again, confessing to the people that make sense to and don't do more damage necessarily, in trying to overcome that. So when you went back, did you go back to a bunch of people from the years you were divorced to confess and apologize? Or did you let some of them just go?
Dr. Joe Beam :Some I did. Some I didn't. The ones that made sense. I did. Okay. And but not to everybody, not not at all. I didn't make a list and I gotta go all of these people. But if there have been people who had more specifically hurt, I might have made a list like, okay, I blogged about this gun cost him his job, then I probably would have gone to him. But but the fact that by divorcing Alice and leaving her that kind of stuff, the damage that had to do to people, I didn't have a long list of specific things that I did to this person, that person, this person, that person, whereas if I had I'm pretty sure I want to go back to each one of them individually.
Kimberly Holmes :Do you think that process might be so overwhelming to people that they're like, I don't even want to try to make the situation, right.
Dr. Joe Beam :Yeah, absolutely. Back when all that stuff happened, I had been a minister to church. And of course, that hurt old church when I divorce Alison lefter. And a couple of years after we get back together, one of the leaders at church call me good Southern man with an aristocratic Southern accent. And he said Joseph bathtime, you came back down him tell his church how sorry, you are what you did. We just said, I can't do that. He said, yes, you will October 10. And he hung up. And I wouldn't talk to Alice and she said, I think is a good idea. And so I did that go down there and stay pinned the night with that very guy, actually, Alice and I did with him and his wife. And the next morning, got in front of the entire church and told them. So yeah, I didn't want to do it. In that case, somebody had kind of forced me to do it. But it was still a good thing. And it was the right thing to do.
Kimberly Holmes :Speaking of church, so for our spiritual Christian audience, who struggles with believing that God could forgive them for what? Do you think people struggle with that a lot?
Dr. Joe Beam :Oh, quite a bit. That's why I wrote that book. Actually, technically, I wrote that book for me. It was Alice, I've been been remarried for a while. And occasionally, I still had bouts of guilt. Occasionally, even though I was trying to get past it. And I thought, well, I'm gonna do a Bible study, to help me get past guilt. And that's why the name of the book now and then of this assault back is called getting past guilt is not just about how to forgive other people. It's about how to accept forgiveness, feel forgiven. And for those of us who are like me, Christians feel forgiven by God. And so that that book is written from a Bible study standpoint from beginning to end. But yeah, it's it's something. A lot of Christians have long since been forgiving back God, but they still feel guilt. I call those people guilt caged Christians. The guilt doesn't exist before God only exists in your own man. Because you still feel guilty. It's affecting how you think what you do, and etc. God wants us to feel forgiven when he forgives us. And here's one that if have, if that feel dirty, getting dirty doesn't bother me. If I feel clean, getting dirty does follow me. So God wants us to feel forgiven because it actually takes some of the power away from the temptations that we face.
Kimberly Holmes :That's an interesting point. So there's, there's another dichotomy here, right? Because there's also the Christians that are like, God will forgive me of anything. And then they keep doing things they shouldn't do just to go to church on Sunday, get forgiveness, you know, do it all over again. Why, but why do you think it is that the that some people take it? They can't accept God's forgiveness, because it's so clear, like when you read Scripture, it's very clear that God will forgive anything except one thing, which I still don't know if..
Dr. Joe Beam :they're blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Maybe that'll be a different program.
Kimberly Holmes :Yeah, different.
Dr. Joe Beam :I think that when Christian people, for example, don't believe that God can forgive them, either because other Christian people are treating him in such a way that they think if that's how they view me, that's how God must view me. I think sometimes that's it. And then I think sometimes is because of the fact that they think of themself As nobody is as bad as I am, not just because they did it, but because they still have a part within them never want to do it again. And because of that, they think, Oh, I'm not really Pennington, I'm not really truly sorry. I mean, I've stopped it, I've confessed it. But still, sometimes I want to do it again. Therefore, I must be this terrible person. And God sees that in me. So God can't forgive somebody like me, or that final thing you said, or what I did is so bad. Even God Himself can get past that. A lot of different things like that, that lead them to believe that God can't. But I know this God will. And so that thing, and not only will, He does. And so the thing you just said about Well, some people claim, oh, well, God forgave me, I can do whatever I want to do next, etc, etc. I often have told people in those situations, you know, you can manipulate the church, because that's full of people. And they'll think that you really are surrendered to doing what Dr. But you can't manipulate God. And he sees right through that. And, okay, so just because you think the church all sees you as this wonderful person, but you know that you're just purely manipulating the situation to keep doing whatever the heck you want to do. You're gonna face God with that someday, and you can't fool him.
Kimberly Holmes :No, you can't, no matter how much you try. So what is the appropriate way to respond to people who are overcome with guilt, they want to be forgiven. And let's say in this situation, they have hurt you. Incredibly, and you have a ton of words that you want to say to them?
Dr. Joe Beam :Well, I think, what I have learned about that through my own sinfulness, the things I have done that I've heard other people as this, you know, you don't need to say all of those words to them, when they really, really hurt you. If they if they come to you. And they're genuinely sorry, if they say, I know, I hurt you. And they're confessing it, you know, they're not blaming it on somebody else, and not blaming it on the situation, the circumstance, not even blaming it on you, but taking full responsibility of it, rather than saying, okay, but first, let me tell you all the things you did. I don't think that's kind at all. It's like they already feel enough pain, what are you going to gain by making them feel more pain? And I think it's a matter of fact, from my experience is definitely true. And I think it's true for other people as well that the three most powerful words in the English language are not love you. The three most powerful words in the English language are, I forgive you. And so when they say that, and you look at them, and you say, I forgive you, you mean it, it doesn't mean that you're going to be perfectly pass all those emotions. But you mean it when you say that, I forgive you. And then you move on. without bringing that up again, about God, I would say that he puts our sins as far away from us as the east is from the west, our sins. And another passage, it says he will remember no more. Well, technically, God can't forget anything. He's omniscient. He knows everything. So what does he mean when he says he remembers no more? What he's saying is, I'm not bringing it up again. That's what he means. And so I think that's how you do it. If they if they say, I'm sorry, that confess, you tell them that you forgive them. And then you demonstrate it by the way that you act, you may not become their best buddy again. But you don't do anything with animosity or anger. You just move past it and want to make it sound a little easier than it is. It's the pathway.
Kimberly Holmes :Because we may not be able to control our thoughts, but we can control our actions.
Dr. Joe Beam :Yes, that's correct.
Kimberly Holmes :And that may be do you do you think that may be part of what can keep people stuck feeling guilty is when the people in their lives continue to treat them guilty?
Dr. Joe Beam :After Alex and I got back together, and Alison, forgiven me and we, you know, we're well into our second marriage, churches began to invite me to speak again, which was not ever my intention. I never intended to do that. But finally I was manipulated into that my friend of mine and that led to other engagements went to other engagements and sometimes people would actually walk up to me to tell me that they had never forgiven me and never would. And in with to begin with, that caused me pain. And then finally, it hit me one day and so this guy was actually speaking at a big event in Nashville. I was living in Nashville attend but a big event, thousands of people there, I made a speech and afterwards, this guy walked up and said something to that effect. I don't remember the exact quote, but something like that to me. To which I replied, because I finally figured it out. I said, if you want to remember my sins, and carry that burden, feel free. But God has taken it off of me and I will pick it up. No more. And then I walked away feeling. Okay, I'm pretty, I don't feel guilty because somebody hasn't forgiven me.
Kimberly Holmes :That's powerful. Well, I love this book. And I think it is a great book for, of course, people who are struggling with their own guilt and wanting forgiveness, but also for understanding how other people are in that space. And in getting empathy for that, because, because sometimes that can be difficult for, you know, if you're married to someone, or you have a child, or a best friend who's doing something that's hurting you so much, you could be thinking like, this is just a bad person, or they're, maybe they have a mental disorder, something How are they? But this is it's just eye opening for? It's like, no, they're just a broken person who were stuck who is stuck in the middle of something right now.
Dr. Joe Beam :That does describe a lot of people. Yeah, that's when when Al Robertson read the book, he didn't want to forgive her at all. Not one bit. And his dad, and this is all public, there's not speaking, you know, anything that's private, that saying, you know what, you forgive her? Don't you take her back, and he read this book and thought, good grief, I need to recover. And so it helped him that and helped him understand how to do that. And they put the marriage back together. And now they they're just a beautiful couple. And so much good for so many people. So yeah, they kind of helped him get that. And I think it's done it for others as well.
Kimberly Holmes :I believe it has to in I think the way that that they wrote that in the book was he was on a flight to Germany, just as a as a pastor. And he said, I'm not reading that book before I preached to these thousands of people because I cannot come like I can't feel this right now. I can't forgive her right now. Which is so I'm sure he's supposed to do the things. But he said no, but he ended up reading it anyway, because it was a long flight to Germany. Oh, I love it. And then I love how So because of this because of him reading that they ended up making it work saving their marriage, they write this book, desperate forgiveness were in it. They put tons of people's stories about ways that they forgiven that were just radical, which is so inspiring, and just the domino effect. That forgiveness, just forgiveness you can have is really powerful stuff. Yeah, that was powerful stuff. Well, where can people get this book?
Dr. Joe Beam :Well, I know they can get on amazon.com. And you can go there and get it. I'm assuming is it possible to can call MH International and to get it that way as well? Or should they just go to Amazon?
Kimberly Holmes :They can call us too. It's probably easiest to go on Amazon. But yeah, if you have trouble finding it, give us a call. Because I know that we have ones that we can send out and ship. It would be happy to do that.
Dr. Joe Beam :If you order it from MH International, then if you wish I'll autograph it for you.
Kimberly Holmes :I was wondering.
Dr. Joe Beam :I can't do that with the one from Amazon, of course because they ship from Amazon warehouses, but if you order from MH International, then they can bring my mouth is over here and I can send them for you if you want to do it that way. I guess they will do that. But what how would they get to MH International?
Kimberly Holmes :So you can call the office in order book 866-903-0990. It's probably the best and easiest way to do that.
Dr. Joe Beam :Can you say the number a tad slower? I couldn't even follow that.
Kimberly Holmes :866-903-0990. You can also find it on marriage helper.com, of course, and I'll put it in the show notes so people can find it easily. But I love it. I love this book. I am really excited to share this episode. I know for a fact tons of people are going to get hope and healing from what you said.
Dr. Joe Beam :Well, thank you for inviting me on to this.
Kimberly Holmes :Here's my key PIES takeaway from today's episode. While there was so much that my dad and I talked about and I know that you gained valuable wisdom and insight especially from him and his experiences. The biggest thing that I took away from this episode was the fact that guilt is there to let us know something is wrong. It is an emotional version of physical Pain. It's that emotional version of burning our hand on the stove, to teach us that something is wrong, and we need to fix it and not do it again, emotionally and mentally when we do something, and then it doesn't sit well with us, it's because we know that we shouldn't have done it, or we should have done it a different way. And that feeling is guilt. And that guilt is meant to raise awareness to alert ourselves that we acted or did something in a way outside of our beliefs and value system. And it is simply a red flag waving in the air saying, this is something that you need to change. These could be smaller things such as I keep working overtime, I'm not spending enough time with my kids. And I feel guilty about that on a day to day basis. Or it can be a larger things such as I had a relationship with someone that I shouldn't have, or I did something that I shouldn't have, I told a lie that I shouldn't have, it can range in severity, so to say, but the longer we ignore the feeling of guilt, we may be able to stuff it down and numb it for a period of time. But we're never really going to be able to shut it off completely. If we continue to do an act in doing the things that we know that we shouldn't do. It's our body and our mind, or maybe even our spirits way of telling us that we should change our actions. If there's something that you are feeling guilty about, whether it's mom guilt, or dad guilt, or a larger type of guilt that you really need to address and stop doing, even though it might be difficult, I encourage you to listen to that voice inside of you telling you that I encourage you to stop and assess where is this guilt coming from? What is it encouraging me to do differently? And why am I ignoring it? And how can I change so that I can get to be the person that I know that I really need to be? I encourage you to get my dad's book getting past guilt. I will say it was such an eye opener for me to understand how really in depth and overwhelming guilt can be to someone, especially someone who has done a lot of things that they feel really guilty about. And it really allowed me to have empathy for others in my life that are dealing with that. And even for me when I came into areas where I felt guilty about things that I had done in the past, it helps me to be able to forgive others. But it also helps me to be able to forgive myself and ultimately understand the height, the depth and the width of God's forgiveness for each and every one of us. Friends. I hope you enjoyed today's podcast, remember to go and subscribe to this podcast and leave an honest review. I love to hear from you guys. So be sure to go and do that. And it will also help more people find the podcast as well. You can always find out more information by going to it starts with attraction.com for show notes, for updates, and to join the email list so that every Friday you can get an encouraging email that specifically tells you what you can do to work on your pies so that you can become the best that you can be physically, intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually. Until next week. Keep working on your pies and stay strong.
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