It Starts With Attraction
Revealing secrets on how to become the most attractive you can be Physically, Intellectually, Emotionally and Spiritually (or as us insiders call it...the PIES). Listen to weekly episodes. Join a course or get more info at kimberlybeamholmes.com
It Starts With Attraction
How To Become More Attractive INTELLECTUALLY
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This episode was recorded in 2022.
Kimberly is joined by a very special guest, her husband, Rob! This was the second time Rob joined the podcast so if you missed the first episode, make sure you go back and listen to the episode about Introverts vs. Extroverts.
In this episode, they both discuss what intellectually attracted them to each other when they first met. You will hear Rob and Kimberly answer questions from the listeners about working on intellectual attraction with your spouse when you have no interest in the same hobbies or likes.
This is a fun episode with lots of laughs and great perspectives from both spouses on being more intellectually attractive.
Your Host: Kimberly Beam Holmes, Expert in Self-Improvement and Relationships
Kimberly Beam Holmes has applied her master's degree in psychology for over ten years, acting as the CEO of Marriage Helper & CEO and Creator of PIES University, being a wife and mother herself, and researching how attraction affects relationships. Her videos, podcasts, and following reach over 500,000 people a month who are making changes and becoming the best they can be.
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On today's podcast, we are going to be talking about intellectual attraction. I get a lot of questions about intellectual attraction all the way from what does it even mean to well, how do I go about being more intellectually attracted and attractive to the people in my life? Today, I have a special guest with me to talk about this topic. The special guest is my husband, Rob Holmes. Thank you, You're welcome. Are you saying thank you for me calling you my special guest?
Speaker 2:Just thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're welcome. You're very special to me and in my life. So, as a recap to anyone who may not be familiar or is just joining the podcast, this podcast is all about helping people become the most attractive they can be, and there's actually four areas of attraction. We call it the PIS. That stands for physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual attraction. And so physical attraction, as we know, doesn't just have to do with how we look. It also has to do with how we feel.
Speaker 1:Intellectual attraction, if you were to boil it down to a question, would be this Am I a fascinating person to talk to? And in thinking about your relationship with someone else, the question you may ask is is this someone that I enjoy having a conversation with? Do we have shared interests, shared hobbies, but also enough diversity within us that we are continuing to learn from and with each other? So intellectual attraction is really that part of the relationship that you begin to have those shared commonalities and do life together. And then, of course, the E goes into emotional attraction. Does this person evoke emotions within me that I enjoy feeling, and also, am I evoking emotions within them that they enjoy feeling? And then spiritual attraction is all about living consistent beliefs and values and having a spouse or significant other that shares the core beliefs and values that you have as well.
Speaker 1:That would be a great episode for Rob and I to do about spiritual attraction later, but today we're talking about intellectual attraction. So I had Rob on a previous episode of the it Starts With Attraction podcast and it was about a year ago and it was the episode that we covered introverts versus extroverts, and so before we get into the topic of today on intellectual attraction, rob would like to make a correction.
Speaker 2:Just a quick correction. In that podcast I stated that extroverts get a greater dopamine hit from socialization and social interaction than introverts. It turns out that when you dig into the literature I am wrong. That is just. It's an easy correction because it's just 180 degree turn. It's just the opposite. Introverts will actually get a greater dopamine spike and greater satiation If you were to compare it to hunger from social interaction. That's why introverts are often just kind of by themselves, because they feel full socially and they don't really feel like they need more social interaction at that time.
Speaker 1:So there you have it, folks. We now have on record my husband saying I am wrong. So I just want the producers to take that clip for me to use to my own advantage at some point in the future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Okay, but if anything, that means that introverts actually love people more than extroverts. So you know that's interesting.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So if you are interested to know more about what we talked about in that episode, be sure to go and listen to that. There may also be a link to it in the show notes. Listen to Rob and I talk about introverts versus extroverts and it's interesting because actually we'll get more into this later, but Rob and I were listening to a podcast Growing Our Intellectual Attraction Together, where it was about social interactions and they talked about introverts extroverts, and that's where we learned about that dopamine spike in a way, it's a great podcast, but, rob, the first question I want to ask you as we start talking about intellectual attraction is what first intellectually attracted you to me?
Speaker 1:And I don't know the answer to this. This is the first time I've asked him.
Speaker 2:Intellectually you were driven and I knew you were getting good grades. And in undergrad I had goofed off and I got. I think my undergraduate GPA was 2.96 when.
Speaker 1:I finally graduated.
Speaker 2:So you have to round that up to even apply to grad school and you were getting like a 3.8 or 9. So I was impressed with that and I like that, I was attracted to that. I was like, well, obviously she's intellectually capable of good grades. I would argue, I am too, but you know.
Speaker 1:You just didn't apply yourself At all so. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Your grade point average was definitely not a reflection of your smartness. Good, that's good, I can say that. So we started dating in college.
Speaker 2:for those of you who didn't put that together? I was. You were in college.
Speaker 1:I had graduated? Yeah, so, but we started dating. Was it at the end of my sophomore year? Yeah, it was the. No, it was the first semester of my, or the, the winter semester of my sophomore year. The second semester of my sophomore year because we got married right after my first semester of my junior year, which is crazy. So you were intellectually attracted to me because I made good grades.
Speaker 2:You made good grades. It was clear that you were intellectually driven. It wasn't just that you got good grades. A lot of people can get good grades, and it's not that they're stupid, because if you're in college getting good grades, you're probably smart it's just that they're not intellectually hungry for more than you are.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, I would say what intellectually attracted me to you. It was very attractive that you were starting flight school, because that takes a level of commitment and you know smarts to be able to learn all of that, apply it and do something with it.
Speaker 2:I did study more in a year and a half of flight school than four years of college. Yes, by far.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, To like the 10th magnitude probably. I studied way more so yeah. I can see that.
Speaker 1:And I remember helping you study. I was thinking about this last night. It was your fives and nines but I think there is something that is attractive about watching someone. It's kind of what you said about me, about watching someone like be hungry for knowledge and learn and then apply that knowledge and you're able to see an outcome of it in some way right Like. I think that's one of those. Basis is about. Intellectual attraction is you're seeing someone learn and grow. They're not just staying stagnant. That's good. So let's talk about now. I mean over the years. So we've been married 11 years now. We've changed right, you're no longer a pilot, you left flight school and so that thing that maybe initially attracted me to you intellectually isn't necessarily still a part of your life, but I'm still intellectually attracted to you for different reasons which we'll get into. But what would you say that you have done over the past 11 years to continue to work on your own intellectual attraction?
Speaker 2:Video games? No, I did. As you know, I pursued higher education. I got my MBA just because it was online. But, you know, after I stopped being a police officer, I was like, well, I have to do something. So I immediately enrolled. I think it was a day after I quit PD I enrolled in an MBA program. Uh, it is online. But you know, I learned a lot. I got my MBA 3.8 GPA. So I was actually trying that time.
Speaker 2:And besides that, I, if you know things, you can do things that people who don't know you know think about it this way how does, how does a lawyer make so much money? Well, it's, it's what they know. Um, they know the law, and if they know the law better than anyone else and how to apply it better than anyone else, they're better and they'll make more money, mm-hmm. Uh, the same could go for a doctor or any other specialist. So, you know, trying to learn more, because I see it as a means of just a better life, not for money necessarily, although it can be valuable for that, but you can have a richer life if you know things, if I know. Okay, if I'm feeling kind of poopy in the evening and my mood is just meh. If I know that I take some magnesium and some other supplements that'll kind of lift my mood a little bit, or if I know that spending time with family and putting down the electronics and the screens in the evening will long-term cause me to have a higher degree of happiness, more oxytocin and things like that which will help balance out my brain chemicals, well then I'm having a richer life and it doesn't take a single penny to learn that.
Speaker 2:And you just got to get on Google. And then, because of the MBA, I learned how to dig deeper with research that has opened up doors to things completely unrelated to business. It's allowed me to use the magic Google or whatever search engine Google is the best, unfortunately, but it is what it is and type in research questions and find scholarly, peer reviewed sources, so that I'm not reading like a business insider article on somebody's opinion or interpolation of the actual research data, but to get to the data itself. And even though I struggle to often understand it if it's in lingo, that is like if it's medical, I'm not a medical or science person, so yeah, you know, but that's also what google is for. What does that word mean? What does autophagy mean. Well, what does muscle protein synthesis mean? And you know, you can look it up and I guess that's kind of what I've done and I already kind of know what you've done, but I want to answer for you what have I done?
Speaker 1:answer for I won't answer for you. What have I?
Speaker 2:done? Answer for me You're working on your PhD you have. So, after after we got married, Kimberly did leave undergraduate studies at Lipscomb university in order to move all the way around the world to the Republic of Korea with me. But she definitely didn't stop college. She enrolled online, completed her undergrad, immediately enrolled in a graduate program. Um, and she's kind of been going, she. She started with marriage and family therapy, went with psychology instead, got a master's in psychology. Now you work on your PhD in performance psychology. Yay, so fun.
Speaker 1:So fun.
Speaker 2:So fun and. But I know you are thirsty for knowledge, you're working a lot, so that kind of impedes, you know, if I'm throughout the day because I do home flipping and I'm not in a season where I'm working on a project right now, I just got out of some litigation and things like that, that kind of tied things up so throughout the day I just have time to research whatever I feel like researching. I just, just, you know, a question pops to mind and I can just dig into that and I can spend an hour or two hours just researching a given topic, just just because you don't have that luxury. But I know you are thirsty for knowledge and you do have to do a lot of research because of your PhD program. It just has to be focused, not necessarily everything you want it to be.
Speaker 1:Well, that's true, and you and I I mean not everyone is going to have the formal education or want the formal education like you and I have, and you don't need to. That's not part of what you have to have in order to have to be intellectually attractive to other people.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:That's just what you and I have done.
Speaker 2:I made it sound like you have to go get your master's in something you don't know, you don't really don't, but there are other ways.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that I say to people when I'm asked this question on podcasts another thing that we know about our brains and as social creatures is that we also form deeper bonds with people that we love when we share new experiences with them, experiences with them. So that's part of intellectual attraction, because it gives you a shared experience, a shared interest, things that you can talk about other than just. You know, when you're married, you tend to get into the rut of talking about just kids or finances or the quote unquote business side of marriage, which that's what drains the life out of it. You don't want to come home and just talk about the problems and the kids and so on and so forth. You want to talk about the fun things and so some other non-educational or non-formal educational ways that we have worked on, or I know at least. I mean I will say we is. We love new experiences.
Speaker 1:So traveling is part of that, whether internationally or even just domestically, or even just things like exploring a new. I love hiking, so exploring a new hiking trail, exploring some new parks, even having a eating, a different type of cuisine, or going to a new type of restaurant you've never been to, and sharing that experience with your spouse helps you to become more intellectually attracted to each other, and a lot of people don't realize just those small things help you have more fun and shared experiences, even going to a local museum I was thinking about the times that we've gone to we live here in Nashville, so the Frist Center and even in especially, I think, especially when they have the crazy exhibits that are just like this is art. Rob doesn't love them so much, but you can think back to them and we laugh about it, like remember the guy that had made like the Cousin it's and it was like a bunch of shoes when the janitor mistakes it for garbage and picks it up in the middle of the night, I think we've crossed the barrier out of art.
Speaker 2:Or when someone drops a McDonald's wrapper on the floor in an art exhibit and then a bunch of people huddle around it because they think it's art but it's not. Again, I think we've started crossing lines that men were never meant to cross.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that that leads to it and other ways that you can work on or that you've done, is in staying intellectually attractive or like working on yourself in that way. You watch a lot of documentaries. I don't like documentaries, I'm not as big of a documentary person, but you watch a lot of documentaries. I probably read more books than you because that's just my favorite medium. So, again, you don't have to do the same types of things. You don't even always have to have the same shared interests, but continuing to be interested in and growing in what it is you like to do and then finding a shared interest or a shared commonality that you can share with your spouse is a great way to do it. Now here's a question that I've gotten a lot, especially in prepping for this podcast and asking some of the people on Instagram to submit their questions about this. Some people have said so. What do you do if your desires or your interest, the things you want to learn, are so different from your spouse's? I think you and I have a lot of that.
Speaker 2:We do, but we have commonality too, and it's hard because the things that I'm exclusively interested in, you generally are not, and vice versa. You can talk for an hour about hiking and I'll just sit there, probably because I don't. I'll. I'll do it, but I don't love it. Kind of like you'll dress up for the ren fair but you don't love it don't love it, and so we'll tolerate each other's hobbies, because we know yeah we don't talk about it a lot because it'd be a one-way conversation.
Speaker 2:so you, you have to find something, something even if it's something that neither of you knew you were aware you were interested in yet. In other words, if he's interested in video games and you're interested in art and fashion, find something new that neither of you has necessarily discovered you're interested in yet. Maybe health, that's something you and I share a lot. So we, a lot of our conversations in the evening, revolve around healthfulness, being healthy, or attraction, even the human dynamics of attraction. Those are things, and that's not just physical, although it encompasses that it that it's a lot of things. So, in travel, oh, in travel, yeah.
Speaker 1:Even just and even the research backs this but even just talking about places we want to go, even if we're not actually traveling, just making plans and having the anticipation of a future, you know, travel experience, even that is something that can bond us. So even just looking at pictures of places and you know we have that Google thing or the Amazon fire stick and it shows those pictures when it you know the what do you call it? Slideshow, you know what screensaver, and we'll just look at it and say we got to figure out where that place is and so I'll like take a picture of it with my phone and try and search it on Google and we'll market. So we'll market for a future place that we want to do. But we really do have a have very many different interests.
Speaker 1:Rob and I do like we had to work on, especially the first several years of our marriage. We had to work on finding those common interests with each other. And also because another question that someone had was that well, I just don't. I mean it kind of goes along with what we just said. But they said you know my husband this was a woman asking she said my husband really just loves his work and what he does. It's kind of in the health field. He is a doctor, but the kind of doctor he is, he's very interested. And she just said I have no interest in that.
Speaker 1:And I mean, what would you say to that? Because I do think there was a time, especially at the beginning of our marriage, we weren't finding common ground and I may have been the first one to coalesce and kind of lean in and say, okay, tell me more about Renaissance fairs, or tell me more about, or that was like at the beginning of our marriage. You were playing a lot of video games and so I would kind of just say, okay, like I'll try playing this one with you. I did not love it but I tried.
Speaker 2:You did. I think this is more complicated because you know he's. It sounds like he's an MD, um, unless she's ready to go get her MD, whether he realizes it or not, or she realizes it or not, there is more that he's interested in than just the work.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Finding that's going to be hard. Right, it's the finding that it's finding it, finding it's hard and you have to explore a lot of boring things that you're really not interested in. You have to be open-minded. I haven't climbed like rock climbed in years, but I know you love it. I haven't climbed like rock climbed in years, but I know you love it. What if I get back into it and I'm like, actually I think I do like this again?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that would be so great.
Speaker 2:You know, when I'm not so fat and it's not so hard because my belly doesn't like up against the wall.
Speaker 1:What a visual. What a visual for our listeners.
Speaker 2:Just imagine me like up against the wall, my belly's like so yeah, you have to find it, and that's that's where it's hard. And it may not be hobby related. He, he may not have hobbies or you know actively, yeah, but but then you know, you may. You may say, hey, I, I booked a weekend trip to lake such and such. Um, I'd love it if we could just kind of go kayaking together. And maybe, you know, maybe he's never tried that and from that point forward he's like I love kayaking, let's do more kayaking trips yeah just an example.
Speaker 2:He's probably tried kayaking um yeah and it's gonna be hard, especially because there are some personality types out there who poo poo everything like oh, I don't like that because and it's like, work with me, right, and that that was a great thing that helped me be intellectually attracted to you, and I hope vice versa is that we are willing to try new things, even when we're like I predict I'm not going to love this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we going to love this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we saw.
Speaker 1:Sing 2.
Speaker 2:We did, and I thought, man, I'm not going to like it. It was great. It was better than the first one, it was phenomenal. It was such a good movie and I'm very glad that I didn't just shut it down. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's been a lot of. I can't think of more examples, but there's been a lot of things like that Indian food. I really thought I was going to hate Indian food, and from bite number one. I did let's just say I'm looking forward to lunch today. Uh, it's made by an Indian lady, or a neighborhood who cooks for us.
Speaker 1:It's amazing.
Speaker 2:Shout out to my heck.
Speaker 1:We love it.
Speaker 2:And uh, yeah, so it's one of those things you got to find it, yeah, and it's hard.
Speaker 1:And it is hard, and you know, because I know my audience and I know half these people are probably in a situation where maybe they're separated or their, their relationship is just in that unsteady ground. And we'll get to this topic next. You might be saying, well, you know, my, my husband or my wife just won't even, they won't even like if I brought that up. Let's go on a weekend trip. They're uninterested at this point. Well then, it may be up to you right now to, number one, work on your own intellectual attraction. So keep learning, keep adding new hobbies, trying new things, just for your own good. But then, secondly, try and lean in just a little bit to something you know they're interested in. So even to one of the ladies on Instagram who said I just have no interest, I get that, but can you bite the bullet for just a period of time to learn a little more so that you can at least, when he wants to talk about it, know enough about it that you can carry on a conversation?
Speaker 1:So thankfully, Rob doesn't love politics as much as he used to, but when he did love politics which I literally have no interest in I would at least try and keep up on some things, so that at the end of the day, when Rob was saying I read this or I read that and this is happening, I would have a bit of an understanding or I would at least lean into asking him more questions about it. So I would ask things like well, why is that happening? What is the history in that? And that's something I still do today. I think just last night I was asking you a question I don't even remember what it was now, but it was something was on the Big Bang Theory and I was like well, tell is, tell me the history of that. Like, why is that a deal? What is what is the thing about that? And that's something that Rob loves when I ask him, because he's able to share his knowledge with me. He's able to share If.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:And sometimes he doesn't know and that's fine too. Then you just make stuff up and act like you know. I always know when he's making things up because his answer is ridiculous. But even humor, like that's another thing intellectually attractive about you and you could even say that goes some into emotional attraction. But you're a very witty person, like you're a very funny. The way you think was very attractive to me because you are funny, funny looking. No, funny, funny.
Speaker 1:Like he wants to write a book, and he should. He should have a series of children's books, and there's one that he has this idea of about the avocados.
Speaker 2:Two avocados trying to escape a vegan restaurant in Austin, Texas, where they're banding together to try and save their own lives from the vegans who want to consume them.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I should kill one of the characters off at the end or not. It's eaten by a vegan One of the avocados It'll be a children's book, so maybe not, mommy, I'm only going to eat meat from now on, so this I'm only going to eat meat from now on.
Speaker 1:So this is not. We're not promoting veganism or carnivorism. No, don't send your hate mail.
Speaker 2:We just find it a funny, funny topic. But yeah, no, and, and one of the things to say to anyone who has, let's say, you're separated or borderline separated, or you're in that phase of marriage that is so on the rocks, it doesn't matter what you say, your spouse hates everything that comes out of your mouth, that I'm going to look at you and, man, that's a rough spot to be in. Uh, I'm only ever in that spot before 6 00 am, but, but if you're in that spot before 6 am, but, but if you're in that spot, um, you have to, very seriously, you have to work on yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know that spouse and maybe they've over time been very disparaging towards you or told you that you're not smart and you're really concerned because you you may feel stupid. I'm here to tell you you're not stupid, that's good. Do something for you, not as revenge against them, but something that they'll see and be like oh huh, get that real estate license. Maybe he'll be like oh, I didn't think she was capable of that. Well, now that she has a real estate license, she could get a job. If I left her she wouldn't be helpless. So maybe I should you know, maybe mind myself a little bit better Get that life insurance producer license. Go attend that course at a community college to learn something, whatever that may be, whether you're passionate about it or not. I can't tell you the amount of times I was sitting there writing papers in my MBA program and I know for a fact you feel the same way even though you're interested in psychology.
Speaker 2:You feel that way about your PhD program. You're sitting there writing the paper and you're like I would rather have my teeth pulled out with a plier right now At least it wouldn't be boring out with a plier, right now, at least it wouldn't be boring. So you know, kind of force yourself to learn certain things that you think are important to learn.
Speaker 1:But you know, another part, going back to what we said at the beginning, part of this intellectual attraction part is seeing that someone else will persevere through and learn something, and that's very attractive. That is very attractive. It just it just is. And so it doesn't always have to be, like we said before. It doesn't have to be a course or a master's. It could be learning how to woodwork, it could be learning how to garden, it could be just picking something and seeing it through to completion. Because, number one, that is going to be the best thing you can do for you to show yourself you did it.
Speaker 1:I mean, what I am literally doing my PhD dissertation on is studying the hypothesis is does goal attainment, if and to what extent?
Speaker 1:Studying the hypothesis is, does goal attainment, if and to what extent does goal attainment influence personal self-esteem? And so the hypothesis is if someone completes a goal, if they attain a goal they set out to do, will just doing that actually increase their overall self-esteem? I mean, of course, I believe the answer is going to be yes, but it'll be. But I mean that's important because it shows that you are a fascinating person, that you're continuing to grow and learn and love to learn and learn to grow, grow to learn, learn to love or love to learn all of those things, and all of those things matter with the attraction. But another question, and a lot of people have asked this. I wanted to ask you about it too. I have been in our marriage, the first to complete my master's and then, of course, I'm in my PhD program and at this point you're not you're not pursuing any kind of doctorate degree. Have you ever felt inferior or has it ever actually been unattractive to you that I have continued learning, if you felt like at that time you weren't?
Speaker 2:I've never fully felt like I wasn't trying to learn something, yeah. So I haven't felt that way, but I can see how someone could that. If your spouse is, you know. And the same could be said for physical fitness, physical attraction. There are there's times where a spouse may be overweight or obese and their spouse is really into fitness and the spouse who's in the fitness actually says very openly I don't care, I don't care that you're overweight, I don't mind, it doesn't bother me. But the overweight spouse still is feeling really insecure and actually really dislikes that this person's getting in such great shape.
Speaker 2:That can happen with the intellectual. The short answer is if you're the one feeling insecure, go do something about it. And the best thing you can do is go enhance your intellectual attraction. Go learn stuff, get licenses, take those classes, dig into the research, become an inquisitive mind. That's what you can do and you'll become less insecure or more secure over time in how you feel about your own intellect. Don't try and drag someone down or pull someone back or hold someone back because because of insecurity and if your spouse is trying to do that to you, forge ahead anyway. Um, I know that sounds like you're ignoring their feelings, but you shouldn't try to become dumber because they feel insecure that they haven't been working on themselves. You know the the best thing you can do is just nicely hint hey, did you read this? Oh, you should check this book out. I think you may like it and they may not ever read it. You do that to me all the time. I'm like yeah, I think I would like that too, and then I I don't read it, for whatever reason.
Speaker 1:You're not a book reader. I've realized I need to become a better book reader though, if I really want you to learn something, I'm going to share a YouTube video, because I've learned that is more likely, or an article.
Speaker 2:Sure, it's kind of the lazy man's way out, but I should become a reader.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I should.
Speaker 1:But we, even we, so yeah. So I was rereading the comment and and this woman said how do you go about hitting the intellectual attraction goal with a spouse that has said they feel inferior? Affirmations and being interested in their interests and hobbies have been a priority for me, but not the other way around. I don't want to stop growing, but if they already feel left behind, it's hard to fight the guilt or concern that they'll turn elsewhere. What are some good ways to include or grow together, turn elsewhere. What are some good ways to include or grow together? And it's what we've already said, it's you know.
Speaker 1:You may have to just really take a couple of steps back and ask yourself well, what is it that they enjoy? And start there. And I think this is another big part too. Don't treat them inferior. So don't just go to them and say, well, I learned today, or I was reading. Why don't you read more? Or why don't you consider going and getting a certification in that?
Speaker 1:And a lot of times we don't realize that we're putting in these little jabs and I'm not saying that this woman is, but a lot of times we just don't realize that the way we're saying things or how it comes across is actually making our spouse feel worse and dissuading them from wanting to actually work on it. I mean, there's been a couple of times with you and I and I think this happened recently too, like in the past week, and I don't remember what it was but I said something and I'm like you need to do this, you need to do this, and you're like, if you keep saying it, I'm not even going to do it because I don't even want to do it.
Speaker 2:Now that you keep pushing it, I don't know, I didn't feel like I was pushing it. I was just excited about it or eager it was watching a video that I or no listening to a podcast.
Speaker 1:You did with someone, but eventually I did listen to it.
Speaker 2:That was a while ago yeah, the Gottman podcast, which was a great podcast All of you and lure them in on a date night like, hey, we're going to play pickleball I don't know what that is, but I saw a flyer for it in the local gym and now I keep thinking pickleball, we're going to play pickleball, and and I'm trying to be open-minded here, but I have zero interest in learning this but let's just say you go together and you both love it, and it becomes a shared interest that you can both learn.
Speaker 2:You go together and you both love it and it becomes a shared interest that you can both learn research together and hopefully that opens the doors to other things. One thing I've discovered, with us getting getting just the foot in the door for a shared hobby or interest that we have even a mild shared interest in has opened the door for other shared hobbies and interests that are seemingly very unrelated. We're both very interested and we're interested from the start in travel. Somehow or another, I feel like that opened a door into health and helpfulness. I don't know how. I just feel like having that shared interest somehow sprouted a new one.
Speaker 1:You work on becoming intellectually attractive. You do it first and foremost for you. You don't want to just it first and foremost for you. You don't want to just become a clone of your spouse. You don't want to just only learn the things that you think your spouse wants you to learn. That's called control. You want to have your own. You can have different interests, but the key is that you also have things you share together, and that's the key.
Speaker 1:And then planning those things. I mean it really could be that you take one date night a month and you say every date night, once a month, we're going to try something brand new. So each of you make a list of things that you might want to try and then you just pick one of those once a month and try it for your date night. It could even be as simple as we want to try a new restaurant we've never tried, or pick a recipe. If you're saying I can't afford to eat out, then find a new recipe that's maybe a different cuisine that you've never done before, and try that, because all of that begins to have a new shared experience which can lead to new shared interest.
Speaker 1:You just have to be intentional about it. And even to the person who asked the question, which we'll just talk about real quick how do you have time, like how do you find time in your schedule to learn new things or try new things? I would say you probably have more time than you think, especially if you consider commutes. So take that time to listen to a podcast or listen to an audio book. Take the weekends and just set aside an hour or maybe even 20 or 30 minutes to read. I mean, you can find some time instead of, you know, going to lunch with someone, maybe you go to a pottery class, like. You can find ways and times to try new things and to fit it into your schedule. When you decide to become intentional about it, what would you add before we wrap up?
Speaker 2:I wouldn't add much except to just kind of piggyback off what you've said. That's all true that we have hidden pockets of time throughout the day. If you have a lunch break at work, you can eat while listening to or watching a podcast. You can eat while listening to or watching a podcast, whether that's on YouTube or just listening. You could discuss with a coworker something you know they know more than you about that you're interested in.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You could spend that time eating, and if you're at your desk or computer, you know browsing articles on given topics you want to learn more about. Yeah, you could, um, even something simple, like I love maps and geography learning more about geography.
Speaker 1:We did that too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Just just open up a map and just look at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, board games puzzles, those are all ways that you can, and I hadn't even thought about that. But what you said about have a conversation with someone, that's another great way to learn. It doesn't have to be a podcast or a book. You can have lunch with someone or go on a walk with someone, or whatever who is really great at painting or knows a language that you wish you knew, like that person. Just having conversations with them about what they know is a way to continue growing your intellectual attraction.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:And you can do that with your spouse too, asking them tell me more about your work, tell me more about what you do, tell me more about your, your hobbies and why you love it so much. That's a great way to stay connected. So the key takeaways for this episode are as follows. Number one you work on your intellectual attraction for you. Take something you're interested in, a hobby that you wanna try. Maybe even think back to something you liked to do as a kid. Try doing it again now.
Speaker 1:The second thing is connect with your spouse on something that you can share an interest in. If you don't have a shared interest yet, then lean into something they may be interested in, that you know they're interested in, and have that be a way to start until enough ground is laid, so to say that you can start just saying, hey, why don't we try going to this new restaurant? Or try hiking together or pickleball or whatever, and just start trying to find a new shared interest and shared experience. And then the third key is, once you've found that, continue to keep that important in your marriage. Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:It was fun. I always love doing this with you. See you next time.
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